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Old April 28th, 2013, 02:27 AM   #1
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Liberty Or Tanks?

Act I of the Boston bombing is now over. Acts II and III remain and will likely span two to three years to complete. They will be a national spectacle that will disgust and further divide this country. I’ll repeat what I said before, “it would have been better if both suspects had been killed”. At least it would have avoided the circular firing squad we are about to face.

By itself, Act I should give us plenty to talk about. Entire sections within the Boston area were on lockdown while tanks rolled through the streets. Bostonians penned up in their own houses and huddled with their families were openly wishing they were armed to the teeth. When it comes to protecting your family in a crisis situation having a weapon makes all the difference in the world.

They finally understood first-hand what the “gun nuts” had been saying for years.



All in all I give the Boston police an “A” for their handling of the situation under those particular set of circumstances. They were largely unprepared to deal with terrorist threats. Had the suspects been plotting an attack in New York city they would have been swept off the streets months before they could carry out their plot. But Boston did not have the mechanisms in place to stop terrorist threats that New York has had for years now.

And they acted swiftly and decisively with what little conflicting information they had to go on. They used what tools they had on hand to deal with the situation. I just think we need to take a hard look at those tools and decide if there aren’t better alternatives going forward.




9,000 police officers and tanks in the streets might be an appropriate response when Hans Gruber takes over Nakatomi Plaza with 60 hostages on the 30th floor. But it hardly seems appropriate when tracking down a single suspect. Tanks in the street always equates to liberties suspended. And I have a big problem with that.

I also have a big problem with Eric Holder sending a U.S. Attorney and a judge to the suspect’s hospital room in the middle of an FBI investigation to read him his Miranda rights. The FBI had a process to complete. Eric Holder cut that process short.

If you have a terrorist suspect in custody and you need to glean as much information as quickly as possible, I’d rather the investigator step on his air supply hose than allow him to lawyer up. Terrorists have no rights. They gave those up when they decided to attack innocent Americans. The FBI were allowed a window of time to complete their initial investigation and Eric holder slammed that window closed.

Eric Holder does not meet the legal definition of a terrorist. He does, however, have a long and ugly track record of aiding and abetting terrorists at every turn, even when it means breaking the law. When the top law enforcement officer in the country is a jihadist we have a big, big problem.
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Last edited by Hondo69; April 28th, 2013 at 02:32 AM.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:27 AM   #2
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I understand your first point Hondo, but what were the Boston police to do?

If they hadn't rolled out all the nice stuff all those federal grants has bought for them, and something else had happened, they'd be roundly criticized for not taking the situation seriously enough.

It will be interesting to see if Bostonians undergo any changes in their positions on guns.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo69 View Post
Act I of the Boston bombing is now over. Acts II and III remain and will likely span two to three years to complete. They will be a national spectacle that will disgust and further divide this country. I’ll repeat what I said before, “it would have been better if both suspects had been killed”. At least it would have avoided the circular firing squad we are about to face.

By itself, Act I should give us plenty to talk about. Entire sections within the Boston area were on lockdown while tanks rolled through the streets. Bostonians penned up in their own houses and huddled with their families were openly wishing they were armed to the teeth. When it comes to protecting your family in a crisis situation having a weapon makes all the difference in the world.

They finally understood first-hand what the “gun nuts” had been saying for years.



All in all I give the Boston police an “A” for their handling of the situation under those particular set of circumstances. They were largely unprepared to deal with terrorist threats. Had the suspects been plotting an attack in New York city they would have been swept off the streets months before they could carry out their plot. But Boston did not have the mechanisms in place to stop terrorist threats that New York has had for years now.

And they acted swiftly and decisively with what little conflicting information they had to go on. They used what tools they had on hand to deal with the situation. I just think we need to take a hard look at those tools and decide if there aren’t better alternatives going forward.




9,000 police officers and tanks in the streets might be an appropriate response when Hans Gruber takes over Nakatomi Plaza with 60 hostages on the 30th floor. But it hardly seems appropriate when tracking down a single suspect. Tanks in the street always equates to liberties suspended. And I have a big problem with that.

I also have a big problem with Eric Holder sending a U.S. Attorney and a judge to the suspect’s hospital room in the middle of an FBI investigation to read him his Miranda rights. The FBI had a process to complete. Eric Holder cut that process short.

If you have a terrorist suspect in custody and you need to glean as much information as quickly as possible, I’d rather the investigator step on his air supply hose than allow him to lawyer up. Terrorists have no rights. They gave those up when they decided to attack innocent Americans. The FBI were allowed a window of time to complete their initial investigation and Eric holder slammed that window closed.

Eric Holder does not meet the legal definition of a terrorist. He does, however, have a long and ugly track record of aiding and abetting terrorists at every turn, even when it means breaking the law. When the top law enforcement officer in the country is a jihadist we have a big, big problem.
I disagree with you on the Boston police reaction and don't see how it could have been handled much differently given the circumstances. I am even surprised how quickly the terrorists were ID'd.

But I am in total agreement with the second part regarding Eric Holder.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #4
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Hondo, do you feel the same applies to Timothy McVeigh?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #5
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I understand your first point Hondo, but what were the Boston police to do?

If they hadn't rolled out all the nice stuff all those federal grants has bought for them, and something else had happened, they'd be roundly criticized for not taking the situation seriously enough.

It will be interesting to see if Bostonians undergo any changes in their positions on guns.
That’s one reason I gave them an “A”. Given the circumstances, given their available tools, and given their planning systems they did about the best they could do. I’d just like for them to re-think it now that it’s in the rear view mirror. Which they are probably doing anyway.

Cities seem to have only two modes. Standard mode with standard police patrols what we’re all familiar with. Then they throw a switch and jump into full blown military invasion mode. How about something in between?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 03:38 PM   #6
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Hondo, do you feel the same applies to Timothy McVeigh?
I do.

A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.

No matter how much Obama wants to give them a hug, or how much Eric Holder wants to keep from upsetting the Imans, they need to decide which side they're on. And from their actions, I don't like the side they've been leaning towards.

They make me look up the definition of treason about once a month.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #7
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I do.

A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.

No matter how much Obama wants to give them a hug, or how much Eric Holder wants to keep from upsetting the Imans, they need to decide which side they're on. And from their actions, I don't like the side they've been leaning towards.

They make me look up the definition of treason about once a month.
That is one of the points I often bring up in these debates. Why have the terrorist label for citizens when traitor should give all the legal tools needed to hammer the perp.

I am still categorically against the sidestepping of due process.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #8
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I am certainly no fan of Holder; he should be in jail.

Once the kid was officially under arrest, which is murky considering his condition, the government has 48 hours, under the Rule of Criminal Procedure, to have a hearing for determination of probable cause. These are anyone’s rights regardless if they are read their Miranda rights or not.

Holder did jump the gun a little early, and should have used the entire 48 hours.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #9
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All the manpower, tanks, Humvees, helipcopter's, etc. To find one guy. He was found thanks to a Citizen, not the overwrought show of force. That was meant to intimidate who? Certainly not a lone Tsarnaev.

It was a practice for the day they shut down all major cities. With the armored vehicles and one-and-a-half billion hollow points they recently have purchased. They intimidated thousands of homeowners, needlessly.

But it served as a useful tool , a useful practice for the powers-that-be.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #10
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I don't get it, this guy runs thru neighborhoods dripping blood and is found by a homeowner stepping out for a smoke? Doesn't anybody in Mass, have a hunting dog?
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