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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:22 AM   #1
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Our real problem?

Could this be the real cause of our discontent?

The real clash is within civilisations | Frank Furedi | spiked
Thanks from Tony
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Old September 27th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #2
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Aside from the dubious status of civilisational narratives, it is clear that the defining feature of the contemporary world is that these divisions exist within society itself. When Huntington claimed that ‘civilisational identities will replace all other identities’, he appeared to overlook the fact that such identities are constantly contested within a civilisation itself. One possible reason why Huntington focused on civilisational struggles, and particularly on the theme of the ‘West versus the Rest’, was the difficulty he and members of the Western political elites have in openly acknowledging the depth of the cultural divisions within their own society, particularly in the US.
Look at DTT and the political environment in general.

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Multiculturalism, cultural relativism, anti-foundationalism, the counterculture and the therapeutic imagination are not the products of Islamic fundamentalist teaching or Confucian philosophy. Rather, this contestation of the cultural authority of the Enlightenment and of classical liberal democracy has emerged from within the soul of Western capitalism itself.
With good reason, I'll add.

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Anti-Americanism and contempt for aspects of the so-called Western way of life exercise widespread influence in many European countries. These sentiments are most systematically expressed through cultural critiques of consumerism, capitalist selfishness, greed and ambition.
Those are some of the good reasons.

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The one essay in this collection that recognises the true, internal locus of the conflict of culture is ‘The dangers of decadence: what the rest can teach the West’, by Kishore Mahbubani. Mahbubani rightly draws attention to the cultural ‘hubris’ within the West, which is responsible for its disorientation. But he mistakenly attributes the problem of the West’s own undoing to its excessive commitment to individual freedom and democracy. Writing from an essentially illiberal and anti-democratic standpoint, Mahbubani - like many of his intellectual predecessors - blames the forces of cultural decadence.
And here we can see how the bane of either/or thinking never gets to the bottom of situations, rather, it leads to endless rounds of cross-accusations, each of which is partially true.

Individual freedom and democracy inevitably make decadence a possible choice, and many make that choice and deny that they do.

Good article RP. Thanks.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #3
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Well, this really gets down to the nuts and bolts of it, doesn’t it?

Is it better to let the peons run free and determine their own destiny, or should those of us who are all knowing and all seeing lead them to their proper path?
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Old September 27th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #4
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Well, this really gets down to the nuts and bolts of it, doesn’t it?

Is it better to let the peons run free and determine their own destiny, or should those of us who are all knowing and all seeing lead them to their proper path?
Neither. History shows the all knowing and all seeing go somewhere else and live happily ever after. Wabi sabi...
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Old September 28th, 2013, 07:22 AM   #5
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Neither. History shows the all knowing and all seeing go somewhere else and live happily ever after. Wabi sabi...
I've yet to encounter the Land of Living Happily Ever After.

Where is it?
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Old September 28th, 2013, 07:27 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
I've yet to encounter the Land of Living Happily Ever After.

Where is it?
It's not in Kenya or Syria.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:20 PM   #7
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I've yet to encounter the Land of Living Happily Ever After.

Where is it?
It was in Detroit when everyone worked for the Unions and the Auto Companies, and received gigantic retirement and medical coverage. Look how that worked out.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:23 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by roastpork View Post
It was in Detroit when everyone worked for the Unions and the Auto Companies, and received gigantic retirement and medical coverage. Look how that worked out.
Detroits biggest problem was the loss of 300,000 manufacturing jobs to overseas dirt cheap labor.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 01:03 PM   #9
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Detroits biggest problem was the loss of 300,000 manufacturing jobs to overseas dirt cheap labor.
Let's ignore the corruption and incompetence of the Detroit government for now and accept that you are right. What is do you see as the solution to that?

Can you see any potential downsides to any of your potential solutions?
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Old September 30th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #10
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Let's ignore the corruption and incompetence of the Detroit government for now and accept that you are right. What is do you see as the solution to that?

Can you see any potential downsides to any of your potential solutions?
I live in a suburb of Cleveland. We too are in the rust belt and lost many manufacturing jobs overseas. But, we actively pursued other industry like biotech and IT. Detroit was heavily weighted to auto manufacturing more than Cleveland. Detroit needs to diversify going forward. The work that Dan Gilbert and others are making IMO is laying the seeds of future growth. I also believe that Detroit is too large geographically. It's larger than San Francisco and other large American cities. They need plow down houses and build from the business district outward. But, I don't claim to have all the answers but I have seen significant growth in downtown Cleveland. Having the Cleveland Clinic hasn't hurt. Detroit is the extreme example but all the northern rust belt cities have been reinventing themselves in light of downward global wage pressures. Detroit has been slow to react.
Thanks from RNG
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