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Old January 12th, 2016, 07:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Bullshit.

Get you a plane ticket to Donetsk, Ukraine.
What does the Ukraine have to do with my statement? This isn't a compare and contrast with other countries. A nation of laws means everyone is bound by the spirit and intent of the laws, and you cannot name a single day that that concept has been adhered to by the executive, legislative, or judicial branch in the past fifty years.
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Old January 12th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #32
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im w/ you on that. IMO all of the protesting groups i have mentioned w/in this discussion are political puppets. look how people admittedly from polar opposite sides of the political spectrum end uo calling for the heads of the protesters. this is allowing the state to gain traction in it goal of eliminating the bill of rights. in every instance the state has some how overstepped its bounds and right or wrong the people have a right to voice their grievances though i don't think in any they were gone about in a very logical way. then again i don't think that they were ever really intended to accomplish anything.
The Bundys "got off." Ol' Cliven said up yours to the feds, and it worked. Now Dwight's out there trying to make a name for hisself.

And yeah I agree with you. These yo-yos....



...are indeed playing into the hands of those salivating over the prospect of a PATRIOT Act-style US of A. Piss on 'em, all of 'em.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 02:17 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
Oregon judge says he will bill Ammon Bundy up to $70,000 a day to reimburse Harney County for security costs related to the ongoing occupation of a wildlife refuge.

Oregon judge plans to bill Ammon Bundy up to $70,000 a day for security costs to county
All right!!! Great move.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 02:18 AM   #34
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What does the Ukraine have to do with my statement? This isn't a compare and contrast with other countries. A nation of laws means everyone is bound by the spirit and intent of the laws, and you cannot name a single day that that concept has been adhered to by the executive, legislative, or judicial branch in the past fifty years.
Seriously? Then how about you naming ALL the times the executive, legislative and Judicial branch violated that concept of yours.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 06:17 AM   #35
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What does the Ukraine have to do with my statement? This isn't a compare and contrast with other countries. A nation of laws means everyone is bound by the spirit and intent of the laws, and you cannot name a single day that that concept has been adhered to by the executive, legislative, or judicial branch in the past fifty years.
On this subject, you are a spoiled-ass American living in one of the most just countries on earth, sad as that is to say but it's true. Foreigners and immigrants have much more appreciation for how good you and I have it.

Yes, when it comes to daily life, daily expectations of justice, contrast and compare counts.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 06:23 AM   #36
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I don't give one flying fuck what BLM protesters do, did, or will do. That's completely immaterial.

I live around ranchers who use public land. I've worked with them, for them. I moved to this area in part because of their salt of the earth attitudes.

Somehow, they get along with federal and state agencies, but that looks like maybe it's a mistake.

You think maybe I ought to call up a few and tell them to break out their 30-06s and meet me at the Division of Wildlife office. When we get there, we'll tell the wildlife managers to shove the "endangered" sage grouses up their asses. Sounds like good ol' patriotic fun, eh?

Next, maybe Bundy could put out a call for us. Reinforcements. Pacific Patriot Network.



Hey, you could come on down too. Then, we could commandeer the local FS office and not leave until the feds turn over all the land they so-called own to all the good people here in the county.
Here is something I have wondered for years, how did the Bureau of Land Management come to have the authority it has taken?

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Some of the same armed “militia” involved in the Cliven Bundy affair in Nevada have occupied federal land in Oregon formerly reserved for the Northern Paiute. Ironically, the “legal” basis for starting a fight with the federal government is that sovereignty “really” belongs to Oregon rather than the Paiutes, who have seen their federal trust land shrink from over one and a half million acres to a tiny remnant of 760 acres in Burns, Oregon, where this current armed standoff began.
Read more at [url=http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/01/03/bundy-militia-musters-again-over-paiute-land-162939]?Bundy Militia Musters Again Over Paiute Land ....
In the 2014 standoff, Cliven Bundy claimed that federal agents had no authority in Nevada. He now claims the same of Oregon, stating Saturday, “United States Justice Department has NO jurisdiction or authority within the State of Oregon.”
Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/01/03/bundy-militia-musters-again-over-paiute-land-162939
Now for the answer to my question, Wikipedia gives a good explanation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management

This is still confusing to me though. When a state becomes a state, why does the federal government maintain control of the resources, and how does private ownership play into this? I am not saying this is right or wrong, but it does seem questionable to me.
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Last edited by imaginethat; January 13th, 2016 at 07:14 AM.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 07:38 AM   #37
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Here is something I have wondered for years, how did the Bureau of Land Management come to have the authority it has taken?



Now for the answer to my question, Wikipedia gives a good explanation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management

This is still confusing to me though. When a state becomes a state, why does the federal government maintain control of the resources, and how does private ownership play into this? I am not saying this is right or wrong, but it does seem questionable to me.
Caveat, this is just my opinion....

I'd say the current management and ownership scheme arose through a series of fortunate events.

Initially when a federally administered territory became a state, the federal government used money from the sale of unclaimed land to fund its daily operations. As settlers moved West, what was to become BLM-adminstered land was for the most part land no one wanted.

Perhaps private landowners in 2016 would care for land better than the 19th-early 20th century land users, but one of the most under-appreciated reasons for federal and state land management was the dismal state of the land when the feds and states assumed active management.

A repeat of what happened in the East, the harvesting of "endless" forests occurred in the West with a big difference: Much of the Western lands were arid or semi-arid. Where I live the whites arrived in force in the late 1870s. They cut every accessible juniper in sight for fence posts and grazed the hell out of what now are BLM lands.

There's an irony to the "Sagebrush Rebellion." Before over-grazing, the semi-arid Western land was not dominated by sagebrush. Cattle don't eat sage, but they eat almost everything else. When ranchers burn off land to make it more productive, they're burning off sage and undoing the damage they've done.

Government land management works in my county. I guarantee that without it towns and cities would be ringed with beat-up trailers and mini auto junkyards.

Government-managed lands are a treasure, yours and mine. And contrary to "populist" opinions and portrayals, the lands are managed productively and, the big one, sustainably.

I'm not sure I answered your question, but I'll stop my rant now.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 07:52 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
On this subject, you are a spoiled-ass American living in one of the most just countries on earth, sad as that is to say but it's true. Foreigners and immigrants have much more appreciation for how good you and I have it.

Yes, when it comes to daily life, daily expectations of justice, contrast and compare counts.
I get it now. Everything is just fine here. Regardless of the issue or crime, it doesn't matter because some other country has it worse. No more left wing bashing of Bush and Iraq because his actions must now be compared to Kim Jong il. Screw the poor in the US because African's poor are much worse off.

Compare and contrast of countries does count if that is the subject, but if the subject is how far the US has moved away from their rule of law, then bringing up other countries is changing the subject.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 08:12 AM   #39
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I get it now. Everything is just fine here. Regardless of the issue or crime, it doesn't matter because some other country has it worse. No more left wing bashing of Bush and Iraq because his actions must now be compared to Kim Jong il. Screw the poor in the US because African's poor are much worse off.

Compare and contrast of countries does count if that is the subject, but if the subject is how far the US has moved away from their rule of law, then bringing up other countries is changing the subject.
No you don't get it now as your going hyperbolic and generally incoherent reply demonstrated.

Sorry Jimmy, compared to most other places in the world, things are really good in the US. Only the parochial don't know that. They could be better, but that's always been the case and will always be the case.

Most of the crises du jour are rooted firmly in politics, and for the last 30-40 years the kind of politics that identify the other side as Satan and his angels.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 08:19 AM   #40
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No you don't get it now as your going hyperbolic and generally incoherent reply demonstrated.

Sorry Jimmy, compared to most other places in the world, things are really good in the US. Only the parochial don't know that. They could be better, but that's always been the case and will always be the case.

Most of the crises du jour are rooted firmly in politics, and for the last 30-40 years the kind of politics that identify the other side as Satan and his angels.
It doesn't matter how good things are here compared to other countries when discussing the erosion of the rule of law here. Two different arguments.

The crisis is not rooted in politics but the breakdown of the rule of law and the lack of federalism that gives politics a national venue on divisive issues that shouldn't exist. If the federalism model that was created on 1787 was still in place there would be no option to demonize the other political party.
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