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Old February 16th, 2017, 05:34 PM   #221
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Wow did the title actually get changed to 'muslims have no rights"? Holy shit. Good job, you've turned completely to the dark side.
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Old February 16th, 2017, 05:39 PM   #222
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Wow did the title actually get changed to 'muslims have no rights"? Holy shit. Good job, you've turned completely to the dark side.
muslims have lots of rights. the right to beat your wife, the right to rape your slaves, the right to behead anyone who disagrees with you.....




yeah, this is kind of sarcastic, but also, not.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:29 AM   #223
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i said before i am not interested in playing "my expert is better than your expert". its the internet, i know you can pull out a thousand islamic apologists who will explain why islam is a religion of peace and violence is nothing to do with islam. and for every one of them i can pull out another expert who will explain that islam teaches violence is acceptable, or even mandatory, and islam explains why the majority of terrorists are muslims following the quran. so lets skip the middle man and go straight to islamic doctrine.
NO, let's NOT go straight to Islamic doctrine, cause as I've tried to get through to you many times already, anthropologists and behavioural psychologists who actually go out and interview anti-Western Muslim extremists, have many reasons to question the notion that their religion is the primary cause of their violent actions, rather than being part of the justification for terrorist attacks and joining a jihadi movement afterwards.

If, as you say:'one expert says this/another expert says that,' then this issue is the same as other contentious scientific and philosophical issues that depend on expert analysis.

If I tune in to Fox News to hear a story on global warming, I'm going to get that 'one expert says this/another says that' story also. And, if you don't have the ability/or even more likely in these days, the time to study and develop an expertise on a subject, then you have to either go with the consensus of majority expert opinion, or decide whether or not some experts with minority opinion should have greater weight.

I've given my reasons why I changed my thinking on this issue since the aftermath of 9-11...much of it being that the 'Muslim threat' claimers have no coherent explanation for facts that don't fit their explanation:
1. Why is Islamic terrorism and radicalization a 20th century phenomena, rather than supporting conservative state authority...just like in Christian Europe prior to the revolutions and unrest of the 19th century?
2. Why do most Muslims seem to 'pick and choose' doctrines (just like Christians) that are useful to them for various reasons/rather than all following the same adherence to 'original' 7th century interpretation, like the Wahabbists and related Salafists supported directly and indirectly by US policy?
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:33 AM   #224
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muslims have lots of rights. the right to beat your wife, the right to rape your slaves, the right to behead anyone who disagrees with you.....
Just like Christians and Jews! Remember, even in most of the New Testament, Jesus does not challenge the authority of the Law! So, liberal Christians have to go with the minority of verses that have Jesus abolish the Law.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #225
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i think that is stupid. if it were up to me, i would pull all western military intervention out of any islam majority country, stop drone strikes, stop everything. leave them to their own future. let the islamic world deal with islam on their own.
Good! But that is not the history of the 20th century. Arabia and Iraq were rebelling against the last caliphate remember, when they got double-crossed by England and France...and the US too behind the scenes.

Even so, the Muslim Brotherhood, Mujaheddin groups, were all products of CIA manipulation during the 'war against communism.' So, thank the US Empire and their deep state operatives for creating shit that got out of their control and occasionally bites them in the ass! But, I still don't think the so called policy experts consider Islamist movements even now to be a threat to their power.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 02:04 PM   #226
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Just like Christians and Jews! Remember, even in most of the New Testament, Jesus does not challenge the authority of the Law! So, liberal Christians have to go with the minority of verses that have Jesus abolish the Law.
you are just not very clever are you? i mean you actually have a low IQ. probably 70-80 sort of range, capable of maintaining a conversation but not actually understanding most of it. close to retarded. dumb. you are a moron.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 02:14 PM   #227
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NO, let's NOT go straight to Islamic doctrine,
you know the truth dont you? you are just too blinded by political correctness to admit it. the quran does teach violence, jihad is a core message of the quran, islam is a religion that celebrates violence and death. thats the reality. there is a part of you that realises that, but that shatters your comfortable middle class delusions, so you just try to brush it under the carpet.
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cause as I've tried to get through to you many times already, anthropologists and behavioural psychologists who actually go out and interview anti-Western Muslim extremists, have many reasons to question the notion that their religion is the primary cause of their violent actions, rather than being part of the justification for terrorist attacks and joining a jihadi movement afterwards.

If, as you say:'one expert says this/another expert says that,' then this issue is the same as other contentious scientific and philosophical issues that depend on expert analysis.

If I tune in to Fox News to hear a story on global warming, I'm going to get that 'one expert says this/another says that' story also. And, if you don't have the ability/or even more likely in these days, the time to study and develop an expertise on a subject, then you have to either go with the consensus of majority expert opinion, or decide whether or not some experts with minority opinion should have greater weight.

I've given my reasons why I changed my thinking on this issue since the aftermath of 9-11...much of it being that the 'Muslim threat' claimers have no coherent explanation for facts that don't fit their explanation:
yes i have read the apologetis too. remember, those who dont quote the quran are probably not telling the truth. think about that next time you read an 'expert', count the number of times they actually refer to islamic doctrine when talking about what islamic doctrine teaches. you will find the people you agree with never refer to the quran.

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1. Why is Islamic terrorism and radicalization a 20th century phenomena, rather than supporting conservative state authority...just like in Christian Europe prior to the revolutions and unrest of the 19th century?
its not. this is a lie perpetrated by the 'experts' you prefer to listen to in place of reality. islamic terrorism and what we laughingly call 'radicalisation' has characterised islam for the entire last 1400 years. its the reason america build a navy (read up on the barbary pirates) its the reason north africa is muslim. its what the crusades were in retalliation to.

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2. Why do most Muslims seem to 'pick and choose' doctrines (just like Christians) that are useful to them for various reasons/rather than all following the same adherence to 'original' 7th century interpretation, like the Wahabbists and related Salafists supported directly and indirectly by US policy?
because they are decent human beings who follow their conscience. and thank god they do. but thank you for acknowledging that the original interpretation is the evil cult the salafists preach. remember, they are just following the quran you seem to think is so unimportant.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 04:04 PM   #228
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plus, so far you seem to have been referring to terrorist events against the west. but how does your narrative explain that the vast majority of terrorist events are within islamic countries, and are directed towards minorities who, far from being oppressive, are themselves oppressed? how is the CIA or american imperialism to blame for pubic floggings for 'moral crimes' in afghanistan, indonesia, mauritania, saudi arabia and anywhere sharia is taken seriously? why did america force iran, saudi arabia, the taliban and islamic state to all enforce head scarfs and face coverings for women? is oil the reason for banning social contact between the sexes?
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Old February 19th, 2017, 05:18 PM   #229
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Religion itself is a fairy tale and should be done away with. The Communists, in the only good thing they tried to accomplish, tried to do away with religion, and failed. It is too bad that the USSR in Afghanistan just didnt go all Pol Pot and start killing all the Mullahs in masse. Or if somehow the USSR controlled Iran for 40 years after WWII.

Religion to me comes from the fear of death. Everyone fears death, even those who claim that they do not. What happens after death? The atheists say nothing, that you will cease to exist for all time. We humans who are alive cannot comprehend that, and it scares most. It also shows that life itself is pretty much pointless.

So many people believe in God, gods, or something else that happens after death, and thus, feel the need to make this Being or Beings or something happy, or face an everlasting punishment. It is pretty easy to believe that there might be a Being, or Beings or something that created the Earth and Universe. I buy into this because something cannot come from nothing.

Islam is a horrible religion, this is for sure, but on the other hand, people should believe and follow what they want unless they try to harm someone else. Banning Muslims from the United States goes against the Constitution. Also, there have always been Muslims in the United States since the beginning of the country.

Religion to me is like heroin and rattlesnakes, one should not be involved in them. However, if you want to be a religionist, or shoot dope or have a rattlesnake as a pet, have at it. But if you bomb a heretic, have starving children because of your dope habit or your rattlesnake bites me in the ass, then you are in trouble.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 08:10 PM   #230
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plus, so far you seem to have been referring to terrorist events against the west. but how does your narrative explain that the vast majority of terrorist events are within islamic countries, and are directed towards minorities who, far from being oppressive, are themselves oppressed? how is the CIA or american imperialism to blame for pubic floggings for 'moral crimes' in afghanistan, indonesia, mauritania, saudi arabia and anywhere sharia is taken seriously? why did america force iran, saudi arabia, the taliban and islamic state to all enforce head scarfs and face coverings for women? is oil the reason for banning social contact between the sexes?
Your bullshit once again doesn't explain why those minorities were able to live easier in Muslim nations than exist in Christian lands for centuries. The cultural and ethnic cleansings started as soon as the US and European colonialists started setting up shop in North Africa and other lands as the Ottoman Empire receded. Your asshole source material depends on assholes like you who can only look at the here and now/ not the history of how we got to where we are now!
Afghanistan is still occupied by US forces and has a US-sponsored regime made up of people who are considered worse than the Taleban, because they're just robbers and looters out for money.
Indonesia was a former Dutch colony that was directly interfered with by US power in the 60's, when they bribed and paid every military officer and organized crime syndicate to overthrow the Sukarno Gov....because it was deemed "soft on communism" by the CIA. Most of the bad stuff done by Indonesian governments since has been crimes against the environment, including indigenous peoples of Borneo, Timor and New Guinea, and this is violence caused by greed and capitalism/not religion, unless you have some evidence to offer!
Mauritania...another former French west African colony...so what's the problem there?
Saudi Arabia...get fucking real! Saudi Arabia is the Saud family business today and sponsor of the crazy Wahab clan's religious authority because the British and the Americans double-crossed Hussein...the guy who was a leader of the rebellion against the Turks...go watch the conclusion of Lawrence of Arabia for the simplified version of how it all started, and add in the US sponsorship deal ever since, that keeps this growing band of leeches in control, as long as they keep the oil flowing and spend half of their earnings on US-made weapons....many of which are being used by SA for warcrimes committed in Yemen.

Without ensuring the Ibn Saud takeover, the Wahabbis likewise would not have been granted the monopoly on religious teaching and education, so once again, consider Islamic fundamentalism as just another manifestation of blowback ignorant foreigners must suffer every time they go messing with other people's affairs!
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