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Old March 5th, 2017, 09:20 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by roastpork View Post
Uh, sorry but Indians weren't the first Americans they just happened to be here when the "Real First Americans" landed at Plymouth Rock. They were just a bunch of tribal savages, fighting among themselves, while living in animal skin tents, and they would probably still be living in tents if it wasn't for the real first Americans.
That's the bullshit narrative you rightwing clowns have been spewing since you landed and started moving inland 4 centuries ago! This continent was too densely populated for Euro conquerors to move in beyond their fledgling coastal bases until the impacts of their animal-borne diseases that indigenous inhabitants of this land had no experience with or immune response for--started dying from these diseases.

The real history of North America before 1492 was a land where most of the people living in fertile areas cultivated the soil and developed and hybridized many plants like many varieties of corn (most lost permanently after the invasion and plunder), a plant that had been cultivated so long, that botanists today can't trace it back to its natural origins! Similar to the development of varieties of beans and squash that along with fishing, hunting deer and bison, provided a better, more well-rounded diet than the vast majority of people could hope to get over in Europe...part of the reason they wanted to leave!
And about the hunt....many nations with large villages filled with longhouses had developed strategies of burning out brush and creating paths through forests that would allow deer and bison to move through but be easily taken down and culled as needed for meat and hides.

"vast reach and capacity of Indigenous grain production impressed colonialist Europeans. A traveler in French-occupied North America related in 1669 that six square miles of cornfields surrounded each Iroquois village. The governor of New France, following a military raid in the 1680s, reported that he had destroyed more than a million bushels (forty-two thousand tons) of corn belonging to four Iroquois villages.1 Thanks to the nutritious triad of corn, beans, and squash—which provide a complete protein—the Americas were densely populated when the European monarchies began sponsoring colonization projects there.

The total population of the hemisphere was about one hundred million at the end of the fifteenth century, with about two-fifths in North America, including Mexico. Central Mexico alone supported some thirty million people. At the same time, the population of Europe as far east as the Ural Mountains was around fifty million. Experts have observed that such population densities in precolonial America were supportable because the peoples had created a relatively disease-free paradise.2 "*

(from "An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States (ReVisioning American History)" by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz)
*in brief, raising livestock and living and working in close proximity with these animals, made it possible for the most contagious diseases to jump species and infect the human population. The lack of experience with raising livestock of the indigenous Americans reduced the amount of pathogens they were exposed to, and put them at risk when disease-carrying Europeans arrived on these shores centuries ago!
*read more here if you want to learn real history instead of the bullshit self-serving mythology you're indoctrinated with:
https://read.amazon.ca/kp/kshare?asi...Channel=system

Or go back to your rrreeaalll Ahhhmmmuurrriiken history sources.
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Old March 5th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #32
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https://www.facebook.com/VeteransRes...4823389723014/

The Native Americans have always stood by the Vietnam Vets, now we are standing with them against the corrupt trump earth destroyers. The destructive actions by the trump reign goes beyond the Dakota pipeline, it is about making it legal for coal mines to dump their sludge in our streams, eliminating laws that effect our air and our wild life. RESIST, PERSIST, DEFEAT!!!!!
I don't know how much room the Lakota, Dakota and other nations being put at risk by these potentially lethal pipelines, have to offer more than passive resistance, but the video feeds I've seen of armored stormtroopers with automatic weapons being sent in at them shows this strategy is completely ineffective when facing tyranny!

In times past, US governments may have been a little more concerned about image and PR to just apply brute force against peaceful protesters; but that's not the world we live in today. We see the same thing happened in 2011 when they shut down the Occupy encampments, not to mention other protests against pipelines and police killings.....pretty much any and every demonstration that might interfere with some corporation's ability to make profits is going to be suppressed by the same tactics they're teaching military officers in Central and South America to kill and suppress natives protesting mining and other developments destroying their lands!
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Old March 5th, 2017, 10:10 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Salinator1 View Post
American Indians/Native Americans were not the first people in the Americas.



DNA From 12,000-Year-Old Skeleton Helps Answer the Question: Who Were the First Americans? | Science | Smithsonian

Applying the best of Native American hygiene to the the worst of "White" hygiene is too broad and intellectually deceptive.

How did the Apache bathe daily when they have to bury and hide water, train from childhood to hold a mouthful of water without swallowing or spitting it out while running for miles across a dessert? Why on earth would a Inuit that haven't sweated or touched nothing by snow want to bathe daily with near freezing water that he can access by cutting through ice in the blithering cold?

What of the upper classes of "Whites"? Nearly all of the settlers were not from that social and financial elitist class, so please don't paint with such a broad brush unless you are willing to discuss all classes within the different tribal systems of Native Americans.

Iranians and Eastern Indians are Aryan and thus "White". They had hygiene standards beyond whichever Native American tribe you want to bring up going back to the classical era, as did the Egyptians, the Greeks and the Romans.

Native Americans tribes were still unequal stone-age societies mostly without a written language more than three thousand years after most of the world including sub-Sahara Africa that already discovered metal and established libraries.
I love how racist rightwingers don't even bother reading the sources they leave citations for....but some of us do read them and call you on your bullshit! For example:
Their analysis showed that Naia’s mtDNA contains a haplotype that occurs in modern Native Americans and only is found in the Americas; scientists believe it evolved in Beringia.

“We were able to identify her genetic lineage with high certainty," says Ripan Malhi, a professor of anthropology at the University of Illinois. Malhi’s lab was one of three that analyzed Naia’s mtDNA; all three analyses yielded the same results. "This shows that living Native Americans and these ancient remains of the girl we analyzed all came from the same source population during the initial peopling of the Americas."

As for why Naia’s skull is so different from modern Native Americans, co- author Deborah Bolnick, assistant professor of anthropology at the University of Texas at Austin has an explanation: “The physical differences between Paleoamericans and Native Americans today are more likely due to changes that occurred in Beringia and the Americas over the last 9,000 years.” Bolnick’s lab was one of the three to confirm the mtDNA findings.
Read more: DNA From 12,000-Year-Old Skeleton Helps Answer the Question: Who Were the First Americans? | Science | Smithsonian
See, what's happened here is that the science of anthropology has expanded and refined its understanding of ancient remains and how populations migrated out of Africa and throughout the world with the introduction of DNA analysis. In this example it's mtDNA or mitochondrial DNA. Other studies comparing Y-chromosome DNA also help nail down who the people were found in ancient remains, where they came from and who they're related to.

Up till DNA analysis techniques came in, all anthropologists had as a tool for analysis was studying the morphological characteristics of skulls and other bone fragments. And the DNA results here show the limitations of that type of analysis, since...for whatever reasons, the skull shapes of the first North Americans started changing after they landed on these shores.

It reminds me of the faux controversy you and your Stormfront-reading fellow travelers were going on about 10to 15 years ago about the 'Kennewick Man'. Kennewick was an ancient skull believed to be about 10,000 years old, and sure as shit, the racist right seized upon Kennewick for evidence of what they call their "Solutrian Theory" of origins....supposedly that Phoenicians or some other ancient Europeans came here first...before the Indians...but died out apparently, since it wasn't until the 15th century that they were back here.

Well, after a long fight with the local native population in the Pacific Northwest region where it was found...who claimed Kennewick Man as one of their own and in need of proper burial vs the scientists and others who wanted to put him on display in a glass case or something, it turned out exactly the same! His genetic ancestry was same as other indigenous Americans...
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture14625.html...
although it could not be determined if he was actually related to the tribes that settled the Northwest in recent centuries; but he wasn't Ainu or Polynesian, as the scientists suspected. *Worth noting that they never accepted that stupid Solutrian Theory to start with cause...well for one thing, how would Euro's get to the Pacific Coast?

I remember that old books on the subject of human origins used to classify the Ainu (the indigenous people of the Japanese Islands) as Caucasian...again because of their morphological characteristics...longer, narrower heads than most people of the Far East. But, once again, these were shifts over thousands of years in outward appearance, that did not track any underlying differences that would put them closer to the Euro ancestors...that actually came out of Central Asia about 10 to 12000 years ago.
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Last edited by right to left; March 5th, 2017 at 10:13 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 03:59 AM   #34
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I have a little Iroquois Nation blood in me, a little Amish blood, a little German blood, a little French blood and a little Scottish blood. That is what I have deduced from talking with my old relatives when a little kid. They are advertising on TV about a DNA check to find out where you came from and percentage. I might try that for shits and giggles if it doesn't cost too much.
I wouldn't trust it any further than you can throw it.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:45 AM   #35
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Cost = $99.00
$99 is dirt cheap for DNA analysis. I am not in anyone's DNA data base but will be if I go through with it which makes me question a probable ulterior motive. Thanks for the price quote.
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Old March 10th, 2017, 11:18 AM   #36
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Actually, the Native Americans were the first Americans, they were here long before the white man. The native Americans were not savages as you ignorants like to call them, they actually had higher moral standards than you white people, and had much better personal hygiene that you write people. Native Americans bathed almost daily while the white man bathed once a month or once a year, also, those "tribal savages" had more going for them spiritually than the stinking white skin. The term stinking white man came because of the terrible smell that came from the unwashed whites. You might want to do some research before you call someone a savage.
BTW, the white man also wore animal skins and you still do.
Must say I have to agree with the stinking part but a nice smelling savage is still a savage. Also it's not wise to give an Indian Fire Water!

Last edited by roastpork; March 10th, 2017 at 11:22 AM.
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Old March 10th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #37
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I don't know how much room the Lakota, Dakota and other nations being put at risk by these potentially lethal pipelines, have to offer more than passive resistance, but the video feeds I've seen of armored stormtroopers with automatic weapons being sent in at them shows this strategy is completely ineffective when facing tyranny!

In times past, US governments may have been a little more concerned about image and PR to just apply brute force against peaceful protesters; but that's not the world we live in today. We see the same thing happened in 2011 when they shut down the Occupy encampments, not to mention other protests against pipelines and police killings.....pretty much any and every demonstration that might interfere with some corporation's ability to make profits is going to be suppressed by the same tactics they're teaching military officers in Central and South America to kill and suppress natives protesting mining and other developments destroying their lands!
Would that be the Dakota tribe than ran out the Cheyenne who inhabited that area.
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Old March 10th, 2017, 12:11 PM   #38
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Must say I have to agree with the stinking part but a nice smelling savage is still a savage. Also it's not wise to give an Indian Fire Water!
As I recall from my college days, and having been in - um - very close contact with a Native American, the smell is sweet, the ability to hold 'fire water' just fine, and the compassion and general emotional generosity far superior to what is often found here at DTT.
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Old March 10th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #39
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That's the bullshit narrative you rightwing clowns have been spewing since you landed and started moving inland 4 centuries ago! This continent was too densely populated for Euro conquerors to move in beyond their fledgling coastal bases until the impacts of their animal-borne diseases that indigenous inhabitants of this land had no experience with or immune response for--started dying from these diseases.

The real history of North America before 1492 was a land where most of the people living in fertile areas cultivated the soil and developed and hybridized many plants like many varieties of corn (most lost permanently after the invasion and plunder), a plant that had been cultivated so long, that botanists today can't trace it back to its natural origins! Similar to the development of varieties of beans and squash that along with fishing, hunting deer and bison, provided a better, more well-rounded diet than the vast majority of people could hope to get over in Europe...part of the reason they wanted to leave!
And about the hunt....many nations with large villages filled with longhouses had developed strategies of burning out brush and creating paths through forests that would allow deer and bison to move through but be easily taken down and culled as needed for meat and hides.

"vast reach and capacity of Indigenous grain production impressed colonialist Europeans. A traveler in French-occupied North America related in 1669 that six square miles of cornfields surrounded each Iroquois village. The governor of New France, following a military raid in the 1680s, reported that he had destroyed more than a million bushels (forty-two thousand tons) of corn belonging to four Iroquois villages.1 Thanks to the nutritious triad of corn, beans, and squash—which provide a complete protein—the Americas were densely populated when the European monarchies began sponsoring colonization projects there.

The total population of the hemisphere was about one hundred million at the end of the fifteenth century, with about two-fifths in North America, including Mexico. Central Mexico alone supported some thirty million people. At the same time, the population of Europe as far east as the Ural Mountains was around fifty million. Experts have observed that such population densities in precolonial America were supportable because the peoples had created a relatively disease-free paradise.2 "*

(from "An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States (ReVisioning American History)" by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz)
*in brief, raising livestock and living and working in close proximity with these animals, made it possible for the most contagious diseases to jump species and infect the human population. The lack of experience with raising livestock of the indigenous Americans reduced the amount of pathogens they were exposed to, and put them at risk when disease-carrying Europeans arrived on these shores centuries ago!
*read more here if you want to learn real history instead of the bullshit self-serving mythology you're indoctrinated with:
https://read.amazon.ca/kp/kshare?asi...Channel=system

Or go back to your rrreeaalll Ahhhmmmuurrriiken history sources.
The US was densely populated by indigenous people when the first Europeans arrived? Estimates run from 2.5 million to 10 million for the entirety of the US. That's not exactly what I'd call dense. Burn clearing was widely used by the natives. Often with dire consequence. As one historian stated, burn clearing, when out of control, would burn until winter rain put it out. Wiping out huge sections of forest. The first Europeans did not come here looking for a better diet. That just plain ridiculous!
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Old March 10th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
The US was densely populated by indigenous people when the first Europeans arrived? Estimates run from 2.5 million to 10 million for the entirety of the US. That's not exactly what I'd call dense. Burn clearing was widely used by the natives. Often with dire consequence. As one historian stated, burn clearing, when out of control, would burn until winter rain put it out. Wiping out huge sections of forest. The first Europeans did not come here looking for a better diet. That just plain ridiculous!
Any civilization that relies on subsistence hunting and gathering will be limited due to excess and waste. Native's population would surge and go down. Basically they would rape the environment of all it could offer, then they would literally starve themselves down to a smaller population. The environment would repair, the native American numbers would increase, repeat cycle.
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