Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Current Events

Current Events Current Events Forum - Latest political news and events


Thanks Tree57Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 13th, 2017, 08:30 AM   #61
Banned
 
coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: nunya
Posts: 12,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
No, it's called being a total idiot for providing a link, since you avoided quoting this part:

Again largely a nineteenth-century tale, the final stage from 1867 to 1884 was notable for the fury of the slaughter for hides and other products. In 1867 the first of five railroads split the herd in the heart of buffalo range, a process repeated again and again. Provisioners like Buffalo Bill Cody, sportsmen, farmers, and ranchers who craved the prairies for crops and cattle—all placed new pressure on bison. The railroads made transportation of buffalo hides easy and cheap, so market hunters flooded in, wasting three to five times the numbers they killed. The carnage from herds already depleted by other factors defied description: 4-5 million killed in three years alone. The commercial hunt was finished by the fall of 1883.


Prior to the introduction of horses on the plains, extinction of the bison would have been impossible! Even after plains tribes on horseback, the numbers didn't significantly decline until the railroad and the farmers and ranchers arrived with the obvious purpose of killing off the buffalo...that's your inconvenient truth!

People riding west on the railroad were invited to shoot buffalo from the windows of their passenger trains, and when the Indian Wars resumed after the end of the Civil War, killing off the buffalo was a top priority for arriving US mercenaries, since killing the buffalo also meant killing the indians!
Of course you ignore this

Quote:
Why did Indians sometimes behave in ways antithetical to today's conservation (which at heart means to prevent waste and to manage a resource to prevent depletion)? Among possible reasons are

the likelihood that in any given year there were tens (or hundreds) of thousands of buffaloes within sight


the need to ensure an adequate supply of an animal on which they were thoroughly dependent


the difficulty of halting midway a drive over a jump


the enormous quantities and weights that awaited butchering and processing after some hunts


the preference for cows for their palatable meat and more easily worked hides


the preference for delicacies like the hump, tongue, marrow, and fetus.
coke is offline  
Old March 13th, 2017, 10:02 AM   #62
forgot my old user name
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by coke View Post
Of course you ignore this
Stay inside your rightwing propaganda bubble! You IGNORE:
1. considering how the introduction of the horse on the Plains changed the cultures of those tribes...making them take on similar attitudes and values of the horsebacked warriors of Central Asia.
2. that all the descriptions of indian hunts from your old book links are coming from conquering and plundering Americans already convinced of their own intrinsic superiority by being white European. What is actually known of ancient, pre-equestrian buffalo hunts (and elk hunts) comes from a few oral histories and archaeological remains examined in Montana and Alberta, which (as should be obvious) were much more limited in size and scale prior to hunters on horseback. So, no group of hunters...even with their hunting dogs, could manage to force a small group of bison off a buffalo jump during the age of hunting on foot.
As mentioned previously, the most difficult hunting technique..if nothing easier was available, was for a few lightly equipped warriors to select and run down a bison...a long, slow, grueling process for the hunters, as they would have to continue running through the night and into the next day until the chosen animal collapsed from exhaustion and overheating....a hunting strategy described of the Masai hunters of the East African Savannah, and one that follows us back to the beginning of modern humans, and explains the human capacity to run extremely long distances, that faster quadripeds aren't capable of matching. Obviously, the buffalo were definitely not headed for extinction during these times!
A few written historical accounts
3. And that Euro Invasion you try to pretend didn't exist and denigrate and slander first nations as something less than human to obfuscate:

Al Carroll, Professor, Historian, Author, Fulbright Scholar
Written 30 Nov 2014

https://www.quora.com/History-of-the...the-US?share=1
It was a deliberate starvation tactic of the US gov't. Generals Sherman and Sheridan ordered it. They encouraged their troops to kill buffalo, invited guests to accompany them hunting buffalo and provided them with military weapons, and encouraged and protected hunters exterminating as many buffalo as possible.

This was not done for food, except for the gourmet market. Typically the carcasses were left to rot, and only the tongues and hides were taken for sale. The army held contests for who could kill the most buffalo. Buffalo Bill Cody killed 69 animals in just one contest. The army even used artillery to bombard the herds. Wiping out the buffalo was one of the strongest grievances tribes had against the US, and was a huge psychological and well as material blow to them.

In congress, some tried to pass a bill protecting the buffalo. Sheridan testified against it, and Grant vetoed congress's bill. The US army went on to provide protection, supplies, storage facilities, and shipping for buffalo hide hunters. Federal forts became the main depots for shipping hides.
Page on msu.edu

Extermination of these herds was one of the great environmental crimes. Starvation as a weapon of war is defined by the UN as one of the elements making up genocide.
Page on un.org
Thanks from GhostRider
right to left is offline  
Old March 13th, 2017, 10:21 AM   #63
Senior Member
 
Twisted Sister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Brown Township, Ohio
Posts: 9,879
Who started this up again? I thought this fight was over. The boss told me don't rest on your laurels.
Twisted Sister is offline  
Old March 13th, 2017, 12:13 PM   #64
Banned
 
coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: nunya
Posts: 12,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Stay inside your rightwing propaganda bubble! You IGNORE:
1. considering how the introduction of the horse on the Plains changed the cultures of those tribes...making them take on similar attitudes and values of the horsebacked warriors of Central Asia.
2. that all the descriptions of indian hunts from your old book links are coming from conquering and plundering Americans already convinced of their own intrinsic superiority by being white European. What is actually known of ancient, pre-equestrian buffalo hunts (and elk hunts) comes from a few oral histories and archaeological remains examined in Montana and Alberta, which (as should be obvious) were much more limited in size and scale prior to hunters on horseback. So, no group of hunters...even with their hunting dogs, could manage to force a small group of bison off a buffalo jump during the age of hunting on foot.
As mentioned previously, the most difficult hunting technique..if nothing easier was available, was for a few lightly equipped warriors to select and run down a bison...a long, slow, grueling process for the hunters, as they would have to continue running through the night and into the next day until the chosen animal collapsed from exhaustion and overheating....a hunting strategy described of the Masai hunters of the East African Savannah, and one that follows us back to the beginning of modern humans, and explains the human capacity to run extremely long distances, that faster quadripeds aren't capable of matching. Obviously, the buffalo were definitely not headed for extinction during these times!
A few written historical accounts
3. And that Euro Invasion you try to pretend didn't exist and denigrate and slander first nations as something less than human to obfuscate:

Al Carroll, Professor, Historian, Author, Fulbright Scholar
Written 30 Nov 2014

https://www.quora.com/History-of-the...the-US?share=1
It was a deliberate starvation tactic of the US gov't. Generals Sherman and Sheridan ordered it. They encouraged their troops to kill buffalo, invited guests to accompany them hunting buffalo and provided them with military weapons, and encouraged and protected hunters exterminating as many buffalo as possible.

This was not done for food, except for the gourmet market. Typically the carcasses were left to rot, and only the tongues and hides were taken for sale. The army held contests for who could kill the most buffalo. Buffalo Bill Cody killed 69 animals in just one contest. The army even used artillery to bombard the herds. Wiping out the buffalo was one of the strongest grievances tribes had against the US, and was a huge psychological and well as material blow to them.

In congress, some tried to pass a bill protecting the buffalo. Sheridan testified against it, and Grant vetoed congress's bill. The US army went on to provide protection, supplies, storage facilities, and shipping for buffalo hide hunters. Federal forts became the main depots for shipping hides.
Page on msu.edu

Extermination of these herds was one of the great environmental crimes. Starvation as a weapon of war is defined by the UN as one of the elements making up genocide.
Page on un.org
Anythin' ter ignore al' de truth an' blame de west. its de seem crock av shoite witcha people
coke is offline  
Old March 13th, 2017, 05:08 PM   #65
Celebrating diversity
 
Sabcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 20,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRider View Post
Right wing white man's history is alternative history. I have lived and worked with Sioux, Arapaho and Navajo and have close Cherokee friends, I know a little more than the white history books teach.
Thanks from coke
Sabcat is offline  
Old March 13th, 2017, 05:55 PM   #66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: California
Posts: 15,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRider View Post
Right wing white man's history is alternative history. I have lived and worked with Sioux, Arapaho and Navajo and have close Cherokee friends, I know a little more than the white history books teach.
Did they get a raw-deal...hell yes they did! Courtesy of the Federal government. There are two sides to the story, and then there is the truth. I have to laugh every time I hear the Sioux talk about their sacred Dakota land. How the hell do you claim it to be YOUR sacred land when you took it from someone else?!
Thanks from coke
caconservative is offline  
Old March 14th, 2017, 10:46 AM   #67
forgot my old user name
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
Did they get a raw-deal...hell yes they did! Courtesy of the Federal government. There are two sides to the story, and then there is the truth. I have to laugh every time I hear the Sioux talk about their sacred Dakota land. How the hell do you claim it to be YOUR sacred land when you took it from someone else?!
Your argument boils down to making excuses for destroying the lives of the plains tribes, stealing land and causing mass starvation with the flimsy excuse...maybe they took it from someone else.

I pointed out before that there is no evidence of wars and destruction of settlements on the plains prior to the introduction of new technologies (the horse) which made possible the changes in culture, quantities of bison and elk hunted, competition for best hunting grounds, expansion of more aggressive bands. I said before that life on the plains observed by the first Americans traveling west, was not how it was done for thousands of years.

Nevertheless, your flimsy excuse to justify near-extermination of the buffalo and depopulate the plains for ranchers and farmers(as well as selective areas prospected by miners) is not even close on a scale of evil, and a further sign that America as some liberals believe now, is not really changing much, but has always been a ruthless, plundering and exploitative empire. The only difference now is America is a desperate, declining empire in the 21st century that doesn't even bother to hide behind a mask of civility in the Age of Trump.
Thanks from iolo and GhostRider
right to left is offline  
Old March 14th, 2017, 11:05 AM   #68
Wall-crawler
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,279
Benjamin Franklin was the first American.
webguy4 is offline  
Old March 14th, 2017, 11:17 AM   #69
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: LA LA Land North
Posts: 24,700
Virginia Dare, born in 1587 on Roanoke Island in present-day North Carolina, was the first child born in the Thirteen Colonies to English parents.

Mr. Google, via Wikipedia tells me so.

Some Spaniard's kids born to native women in Florida preceded her but they wouldn't count to a conservative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Americans
Thanks from GhostRider
RNG is offline  
Old March 14th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #70
Wall-crawler
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Virginia Dare, born in 1587 on Roanoke Island in present-day North Carolina, was the first child born in the Thirteen Colonies to English parents.

Mr. Google, via Wikipedia tells me so.

Some Spaniard's kids born to native women in Florida preceded her but they wouldn't count to a conservative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Americans
American is not a race. It's an attitude , it's a point of view. It's a set of values. It's a way of living.

It's Benjamin Franklin.
webguy4 is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Current Events

Tags
americans, stand, vets



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trump Voters Think African Americans Are Much Less Deserving Than ‘Average Americans’ tristanrobin Current Events 73 December 30th, 2016 02:36 PM
It's Time For Constitution Loving Americans To Stand Up To Right Wing Republicans skews13 Current Events 6 February 19th, 2014 05:56 PM
Stand up Americans pana8 Current Events 62 October 17th, 2013 03:19 AM
Get Up, Stand Up, Stand Up for Your Rights! ! rumpelstiltskin Freedom of Speech 4 December 1st, 2010 06:55 AM
Obama asks Americans to remember fallen vets CNN Current Events 2 May 25th, 2009 11:35 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.