Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Current Events

Current Events Current Events Forum - Latest political news and events


Thanks Tree34Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 8th, 2017, 03:46 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 137
HRC 2022 & the Article V Convention

I searched the site, and may have missed it, but did not see any sustained discussion about the Article V Convention, so I'd like to discuss that here with anyone who has an opinion about it.

In relation to that, as you may or may not have heard, the state of Arizona has passed House Concurrent Resolution 2022. This a call put out to the states by Arizona, asking them to send delegates to a convention they're hosting September 12, 2017: HCR2022 - 531R - C Ver

The Phoenix Convention has been called in order to discuss an actual Article V Convention as mandated by the Constitution. This is the first such convention called by a state since the 1861 Peace Convention that was held in the attempt to stave off the Civil War.

If you are Anti-Conventionist, I ask you take a step back and consider the following:

Quote:
Let’s agree that the Constitution is unique in all political experience, and thus so is its convention clause. There is no other found in a fifth article of a nation’s high law anywhere in history or presently on Earth. Some might think it a quibble or splitting hairs as to whether or not we capitalize the Article V Convention as a proper noun. Yet, as a proper noun we know we’re not talking about a constitutional convention, but a unique assembly called by the US Congress to formally propose amendments. Anti-Conventionists today confuse the noun constitutional convention with the proper noun Article V Convention seemingly in order to bolster their argument against the latter.

Consider this: when we have a federal convention we can be certain it will adjourn, right? Regardless of proposals on the table, at some point the presiding officer(s) will call the question of whether or not to adjourn. No delegate is then going to stand and declare that they might have a new proposal the following week, and make the motion to remain convened until then. If a delegate did so, even though other delegates were satisfied the convention had considered everything worth considering, the motion would fail to carry and the convention would adjourn anyway. Of course this is an example of practical politics, or for lack of a better term, the law of the jungle. Meaning that when humans gather, the law of the jungle takes over—including delegates convinced their job is done and that it’s time to get back home to family and friends. Anti-Conventionists conceive of a world where practical politics would not apply to the Article V Convention, when in fact they are unavoidable whenever humans gather to determine consensus of the whole. Because of practical politics, if we know a convention will adjourn, then we know at that point in time nothing will have changed legally, and it will be perfectly clear to everyone that the process of proposal and the process of ratification are two very different things.

For the sake of clarification, let’s say Congress issues the call for the Article V Convention. The first thing to happen is that thousands of Americans in each of the fifty states will be on the phone to their state officials, asking how their state intends to engage in the process, and who gets to be delegate. Next, we will get news of the states declaring whether they intend to elect or select delegates (in fact Michigan and Indiana, respectively, have already done so). Regardless of whether a state elects or selects its delegates, the next to happen is that a formal discussion will begin in each state and nationwide about what is a good idea for the 28th Amendment. Next, the convention convenes, and parliamentary procedure is implemented (practical politics will guarantee it because most delegates will not want to fight to be heard and parliamentary procedure ensures that they’ll simply have to raise their hand). From there, the long, slow, deliberative process begins over amendment language. By the time the convention adjourns and we embark on the ratification process, the nation will have already been engaged in formal discussion for months, which will have touched on how politicians have treated constituents in the past, which means by that point legislators will be as receptive as they have ever been. We won’t come out of the Article V Convention only to find state legislators couldn’t care less what the people of their district think. By that time in the process legislators will be standing at attention like a private at boot camp.

As to the contention that special interests will set upon the convention and bamboozle the nation? The lobbyists of K Street will not want to advocate, in public, before the nation, what they currently get away with at DC restaurant tables, just as no criminal will want to attend a public discussion about how to stop criminals from committing crime. And even if lobbyists did attend, and attempted to sabotage the discussion with ineffectual proposals, such proposals would never withstand the lack of support within the convention itself, let alone the crucible of ratification after it adjourns. What can any special interest group propose that roughly 8 out of 10 Americans are going to agree on? In terms of practical politics, a large and diverse, regionalized society like ours assures us that anything slightly questionable will fail.

Last edited by Alipes; April 8th, 2017 at 03:51 PM.
Alipes is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 03:56 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Clara007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,171
Enter Stage Right......JimmyB
Clara007 is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 03:59 PM   #3
Banned
 
jetson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Adelaide. South Australia.
Posts: 2,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Enter Stage Right......JimmyB
You and Alipes should have better things to do.
jetson is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 04:02 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetson View Post
You and Alipes should have better things to do.
Meaning you think a federal convention is a waste of time?
Alipes is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 05:01 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Jimmyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 38,895
The second method of an Article V amendment process is an interesting concept. I think would be prudent to defer to the grade school teacher/Constitution and history scholar Clara to provide the purpose, intent, and limitations of the Article V amendment process.
Thanks from caconservative, Sabcat and coke
Jimmyb is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 05:33 PM   #6
Banned
 
excalibur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 24,581
I posted about the Arizona vote.

Arizona Calls for Convention of States

Since then at least one more state has voted in favor, so at least ten now, thirty-two are needed.


excalibur is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #7
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 29,635
Any idea what idea or ideas Arizona wishes to bring forward?
RNG is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 06:19 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
The second method of an Article V amendment process is an interesting concept. I think would be prudent to defer to the grade school teacher/Constitution and history scholar Clara to provide the purpose, intent, and limitations of the Article V amendment process.
The intent of the convention clause was and still is, that if the Congress ever becomes corrupted, that states have the ability/right to formally discuss amendments. It's as simple as that. You're either for a convention, sanctioned by Article V, or you are not. 75% of this huge regionalized country are not going to decide to agree to rewrite the Constitution. But they might agree to remove private funds from public elections.
Thanks from imaginethat, RNG, coke and 1 others
Alipes is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 06:25 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Any idea what idea or ideas Arizona wishes to bring forward?
Apparently, this convention is meant to bring all the states together to talk about the real thing, the Article V Convention. There are forces trying to make it so that all delegates to the real thing are "commissioners" but I don't think that will play out in the end. It's complicated, but it's finally playing out.
Alipes is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 06:29 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
I posted about the Arizona vote.

Arizona Calls for Convention of States

Since then at least one more state has voted in favor, so at least ten now, thirty-two are needed.


Hi excalibur, the states don't vote, they apply. Those applications have to be enrolled as federal documents by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) so the Congress can officially count them, and that is the current struggle, to get NARA to do its job. At present Representative Luke Messer (6th Indiana) has HR 1742, tasking the Director of NARA to get their but in gear and get things counted up: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...ouse-bill/1742
Thanks from coke

Last edited by Alipes; April 8th, 2017 at 06:34 PM.
Alipes is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Current Events

Tags
2022, article, article v convention, constitution, convention, hrc



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An excellent article Doug Racism 9 January 6th, 2012 09:31 PM
Homosexual Soccer Fans Warned To Behave At 2022 World Cup In Qatar garysher Sports 2 December 20th, 2010 12:53 PM
This article should be an inspiration to us. highway80west Sports 0 November 17th, 2010 08:02 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.