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Old April 17th, 2017, 05:29 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
You're the one claiming that the Constitution is based on the Bible and the God that it never mentions, so that is up to you to prove.

As far as Bill of Rights applying to the states, I have already asked the simple question that you have continually refused to answer.

If the Bill of Rights does not apply to the states then why have it at all?
I have already given one example in this thread. Prove me wrong.

Quit running. Provide one iota of evidence that just one Founder intended for the Bill of Rights to apply to the states.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Here's the thing, the Moore's are American citizens. They have the RIGHT to vote and usual their rights to influence laws and legislation HERE.
Who gives a fuck what some extremist Muslim living in a fucking cave in Afghanistan believes or fucking wants.

So, yes indeed, the Moores are of more concern to me.
What the fuck are you talking about?
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Old April 17th, 2017, 05:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
I have already given one example in this thread. Prove me wrong.

Quit running. Provide one iota of evidence that just one Founder intended for the Bill of Rights to apply to the states.
For any practical purposes, what does it matter?
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Old April 17th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
What the fuck are you talking about?
What din't you understand?
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Old April 17th, 2017, 05:50 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
What din't you understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Here's the thing, the Moore's are American citizens. They have the RIGHT to vote and usual their rights to influence laws and legislation HERE.
Who gives a fuck what some extremist Muslim living in a fucking cave in Afghanistan believes or fucking wants.

So, yes indeed, the Moores are of more concern to me.
Well, why you are babbling about people in another nation.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
Well, why you are babbling about people in another nation.
What? Why the fuck not? You people babble and piss your pants over an entire fucking religion. Cry about what "they" are doing all over the world as if it is happening here.

If you boys can piss your pants about what some Muslim guy WANTS to do in Australia, you suspect, why in the fuck can't i talk about some guy living in a fucking cave in fucking Afghanistan?

Nut job's like the Moore's live HERE can legally vote HERE.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 06:26 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
What? Why the fuck not? You people babble and piss your pants over an entire fucking religion. Cry about what "they" are doing all over the world as if it is happening here.

If you boys can piss your pants about what some Muslim guy WANTS to do in Australia, you suspect, why in the fuck can't i talk about some guy living in a fucking cave in fucking Afghanistan?

Nut job's like the Moore's live HERE can legally vote HERE.
In other words you were just babbling about something unrelated to my post because it is getting late. Ok. I get it.

Quote:
Shogi (将棋 shōgi?) (/ˈʃoʊɡiː/, Japanese: [ɕo̞ːɡi] or [ɕo̞ːŋi]), also known as Japanese chess or the Generals' Game, is a two-player strategy board game in the same family as Western (international) chess, chaturanga, makruk, shatranj, janggi and xiangqi, and is the most popular of a family of chess variants native to Japan. Shōgi means general's (shō 将) board game (gi 棋).

The earliest predecessor of the game, chaturanga, originated in India in the 6th century. Shogi in its present form was played as early as the 16th century, while a direct ancestor without the drop rule was recorded from 1210 in a historical document Nichūreki, which is an edited copy of Shōchūreki and Kaichūreki from the late Heian period (c. 1120).

Shogi was the earliest chess variant to allow captured pieces to be returned to the board by the capturing player.[1] David Pritchard compares this rule to the practice of 16th century mercenaries switching loyalties when captured.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogi
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Old April 17th, 2017, 07:42 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
You're the one claiming that the Constitution is based on the Bible and the God that it never mentions, so that is up to you to prove.

As far as Bill of Rights applying to the states, I have already asked the simple question that you have continually refused to answer.

If the Bill of Rights does not apply to the states then why have it at all?
Jim has posted on several occasions that the bill of rights ONLY applies to dealings with the federal government. So in his world your state can strip away ALL of your constitutional rights. If you don't like it, you're free to move to a state more to your liking.

According to him, the 4th and 5th only apply if you've been arrested or are being investigated by the federal government. The first only applies if the feds are trying to shut down your news paper or force you to attend church.

I'm like you however, why have them if they don't apply at the state level. I am a resident of the state of Tennessee but I am a CITIZEN of the United States and my most fundamental legal protections should NOT change simply because I crossed a river, or worse, simply stepped over some imaginary line. Seriously ?? One step in any direction that puts me in a different state, and my right change ??

If they don't apply at the state level then why did the states have to ratify them ?? Isn't the process of requiring states to ratify first the constitution itself and later the amendments, defacto consent on the part of the states to be governed by the constitution and it's amendments ?? Not to oversimplify it, but like buying a home in a neighborhood that has an HOA ??

I also agree that the founding fathers are extremely progressive, down right radical even. I have little doubt that in this day and age such forward thinking people would fully support gay rights and the most expansive interpretations of the amendments. However this country just elected Donald Trump as president. I fear that a truly enlightened politician would be shouted down, called socialist, communist or worse. The current crop of conservatives certainly wouldn't recognize an enlightened person, muchless a politician. Of course most of them wouldn't recognize Jesus either !!!
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Old April 17th, 2017, 09:10 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
Jim has posted on several occasions that the bill of rights ONLY applies to dealings with the federal government. So in his world your state can strip away ALL of your constitutional rights. If you don't like it, you're free to move to a state more to your liking.

According to him, the 4th and 5th only apply if you've been arrested or are being investigated by the federal government. The first only applies if the feds are trying to shut down your news paper or force you to attend church.

I'm like you however, why have them if they don't apply at the state level. I am a resident of the state of Tennessee but I am a CITIZEN of the United States and my most fundamental legal protections should NOT change simply because I crossed a river, or worse, simply stepped over some imaginary line. Seriously ?? One step in any direction that puts me in a different state, and my right change ??

If they don't apply at the state level then why did the states have to ratify them ?? Isn't the process of requiring states to ratify first the constitution itself and later the amendments, defacto consent on the part of the states to be governed by the constitution and it's amendments ?? Not to oversimplify it, but like buying a home in a neighborhood that has an HOA ??

I also agree that the founding fathers are extremely progressive, down right radical even. I have little doubt that in this day and age such forward thinking people would fully support gay rights and the most expansive interpretations of the amendments. However this country just elected Donald Trump as president. I fear that a truly enlightened politician would be shouted down, called socialist, communist or worse. The current crop of conservatives certainly wouldn't recognize an enlightened person, muchless a politician. Of course most of them wouldn't recognize Jesus either !!!
Quote:
Jim has posted on several occasions that the bill of rights ONLY applies to dealings with the federal government. So in his world your state can strip away ALL of your constitutional rights. If you don't like it, your free to move to a state more to your liking.
If you have any evidence that contradicts my views, I would like to see it.

We have the Bill of Rights because of the Antifederalists. Without the Bill of Rights, the Constitution would not have been ratified because of the Antifederalists. The Antifederalists wanted a Bill of Rights to prevent a federal government becoming too powerful like under King George. The Federalists did not want a Bill of Rights. The Antifederalists won. It was all about the power of the federal government. The states created the government and each step of the way they fought tooth and nail to give up the smallest power. They were sovereign nations given up a few limited and enumerated powers. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were not about the states other than what power the states gave up. If the Bill of Rights were proposed to apply to the states during the debates, the Constitution would not have been ratified. If the Bill of Rights were written to apply to the states in the First Congress, they would not have been ratified. The entire process and debates are in the Congressional record. Applying to the states is not there nor was it a concept.

Madison did want to apply equal right of conscience to the states, but the Senate stripped that out to get it passed. Madison also wanted the Declaration of Independence to be in the Preamble. Madison et al. did not view the Bill of Rights as actual amendments because they were not part of the body of the Constitution and they viewed them as "friendly alterations."

Every single Supreme Court's opinion from Marshall's opinion in Barron v Baltimore (1833), through Presser v. Illinois (1886), the court's opinion, based on the intent of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights did not apply to the states.

Quote:
If they don't apply at the state level then why did the states have to ratify them ?? Isn't the process of requiring states to ratify first the constitution itself and later the amendments, defacto consent on the part of the states to be governed by the constitution and it's amendments ?? Not to oversimplify it, but like buying a home in a neighborhood that has an HOA ??
To protect the states from the federal government.

Quote:
I also agree that the founding fathers are extremely progressive, down right radical even.
They were not very progressive. Their idea and concepts were based primarily on why nations had failed over thousands of years, colonial common law, state constitutions, Sir Coke and 200 year old jurisprudence, Locke, Montesquieu, and English common law. They took these concepts and created a government with dual federalism that would prevent the nation from fracturing and breaking up.

Name a single Democrat policy that is not a direct cause of dividing this country.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 10:18 PM   #70
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Just in case anyone still thinks the Bill of Rights were made to apply to the states


Quote:
PREAMBLE TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS

Congress of the United States begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.


THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.

ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.
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