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Old July 1st, 2017, 09:51 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
With reference to our Constitution being "carved in stone", let me assure you that our wise founders provided Article V, our Constitution's amendment process which allows for change to accommodate changing times. But note, our method of change requires consent of the governed by a three-fourths approval, and I cannot put my finger on any amendment granting power to Congress to enter the various states and meddle in the people's health-care decisions and choices, nor tax and spend to provide health-care to the people within the various states. In fact, the Tenth Amendment provides protection prohibiting our federal government from exercising such power!

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___ Justice Story
I have to disagree with this. Article V's amendment clause was for corrections of flaws in the Constitution. This was the public understanding of the amendment process and was the legal and dictionary definition a the time. The first two actual amendments, the Eleventh and Twelfth, corrected flaws. To amend the constitution for changing times defeats one of its purposes of protecting the country from human nature, which does not change, or the flavor of the day.
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Old July 1st, 2017, 09:54 AM   #32
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I prefer Constitution and Nationalism to likes. Infact both are good.
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Old July 1st, 2017, 10:51 AM   #33
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I have to disagree with this. Article V's amendment clause was for corrections of flaws in the Constitution. This was the public understanding of the amendment process and was the legal and dictionary definition a the time. The first two actual amendments, the Eleventh and Twelfth, corrected flaws. To amend the constitution for changing times defeats one of its purposes of protecting the country from human nature, which does not change, or the flavor of the day.
I do not disagree with your above point. As a matter of fact I can support it by the words of one of our forefathers.


"The framers of the Constitution guarded so much against a possibility of such partial preferences as might be given, if Congress had the right to grant them, that, even to encourage learning and useful arts, the granting of patents is the extent of their power. And surely nothing could be less dangerous to the sovereignty or interest of the individual States than the encouragement which might be given to ingenious inventors or promoters of valuable inventions in the arts and sciences. The encouragement which the General Government might give to the fine arts, to commerce, to manufactures, and agriculture, might, if judiciously applied, redound to the honor of Congress, and the splendor, magnificence, and real advantage of the United States; but the wise framers of our Constitution saw that, if Congress had the power of exerting what has been called a royal munificence for these purposes, Congress might, like many royal benefactors, misplace their munificence; might elevate sycophants, and be inattentive to men unfriendly to the views of Government; might reward the ingenuity of the citizens of one State, and neglect a much greater genius of another. A citizen of a powerful State it might be said, was attended to, whilst that of one of less weight in the Federal scale was totally neglected. It is not sufficient, to remove these objections, to say, as some gentlemen have said, that Congress in incapable of partiality or absurdities, and that they are as far from committing them as my colleagues or myself. I tell them the Constitution was formed on a supposition of human frailty, and to restrain abuses of mistaken powers.” Annals of Congress Feb 7th,1792 Representative Page


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Old July 3rd, 2017, 06:54 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
OTOH, we have tremendous Federal involvement in health care, and the Supreme Court has heard challenges and decided in favor of Federal involvement in health care.

It looks like you are looking at one side of an argument, and pronouncing it as definitive, while ignoring that people who have been chosen to settle disputes on what the constitution really means have found healthcare to be a legitimate area for federal involvement.
Well, since you say "the Supreme Court has heard challenges and decided in favor of Federal involvement in health care", why not quote the Court where it supports its opinion with the text of our Constitution and its legislative intent expressed during the framing and ratification of our Constitution which gives context to its text?


The bottom line is, the Court has not quoted anything from our Constitution, nor its documented legislative intent, to confirm the notion that Congress has power to enter the states and tax the people therein to finance an entity such as Planned Parenthood, which is the subject of the thread, when Federalist Paper No. 45 tells us:


ďThe powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.


The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.Ē



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The whole aim of construction, as applied to a provision of the Constitution, is to discover the meaning, to ascertain and give effect to the intent of its framers and the people who adopted it._____HOME BLDG. & LOAN ASS'N v. BLAISDELL, 290 U.S. 398 (1934)

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Old July 3rd, 2017, 07:00 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
I have to disagree with this. Article V's amendment clause was for corrections of flaws in the Constitution. This was the public understanding of the amendment process and was the legal and dictionary definition a the time. The first two actual amendments, the Eleventh and Twelfth, corrected flaws. To amend the constitution for changing times defeats one of its purposes of protecting the country from human nature, which does not change, or the flavor of the day.
Oh? You would be happier had Constitutional Amendments NOT been ratified to give black people and women the vote, you'd be happier if Presidents could serve an unlimited number of terms in office?
Interesting.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 08:45 AM   #36
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You'd rather have us paying for 18 years of WIC, welfare and section 8 housing ??? Only to have that generation grow up and follow the same route because we didn't invest in birthcontrol ??

You're a fucking moron !!!
Nope we would rather people be responsible with the sexual habits, so that babies are not butchered in the womb.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 09:44 AM   #37
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Nope we would rather people be responsible with the sexual habits, so that babies are not butchered in the womb.
So why all the effort to strip people of their rights?

Why not work on promoting better sexual habits?
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 09:56 AM   #38
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Well, since you say "the Supreme Court has heard challenges and decided in favor of Federal involvement in health care", why not quote the Court where it supports its opinion with the text of our Constitution and its legislative intent expressed during the framing and ratification of our Constitution which gives context to its text?


The bottom line is, the Court has not quoted anything from our Constitution, nor its documented legislative intent, to confirm the notion that Congress has power to enter the states and tax the people therein to finance an entity such as Planned Parenthood, which is the subject of the thread, when Federalist Paper No. 45 tells us:


ďThe powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.


The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.Ē



JWK





The whole aim of construction, as applied to a provision of the Constitution, is to discover the meaning, to ascertain and give effect to the intent of its framers and the people who adopted it._____HOME BLDG. & LOAN ASS'N v. BLAISDELL, 290 U.S. 398 (1934)

And that's your opinion, which I don't believe is referenced in the constitution, however, it does mention the supreme court, and so the court's opinion is more of a guide to how the constitution really works, the the opinion of a random internet poster.
And while the failure to quote a relevant constitutional phrase counts so heavily at the Supreme Court of the Online Fantasy Constitution, apparently it doesn't seem to phase the actual Supreme Court.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 10:18 AM   #39
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And that's your opinion, which I don't believe is referenced in the constitution, however, it does mention the supreme court, and so the court's opinion is more of a guide to how the constitution really works, the the opinion of a random internet poster.
And while the failure to quote a relevant constitutional phrase counts so heavily at the Supreme Court of the Online Fantasy Constitution, apparently it doesn't seem to phase the actual Supreme Court.

Where exactly is this in the Constitution?
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 10:30 AM   #40
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So why all the effort to strip people of their rights?

Why not work on promoting better sexual habits?
What rights? Which specific rights are taken away?
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