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Old July 11th, 2017, 07:54 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
How can you possibly know anything you've claimed?
they arent my claims, they are the claims of the journalists, and lawyers, and other commentators who have spoken and written about this issue.

at this stage, looking at all the information that is publicly known, there is no reason believe anything significant happened.

and remember, these are the claims of the prosecutors, the ones trying to bring down trump and co. this is what they have:

the trump team didnt solicit anything, they were approached by the russians.
the trump team didnt actually get anything from them at the end of the day.
the trump team didnt give them anything.

thats it. someone rang them and said "hey, a friend might have something you guys can use, meet me at 2" and trump and co replied "ok, see you at 2". they met, the guy actually didnt have anything useful, they went home again. its not a case.

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nothing actually happened? Please show everyone that crystal ball you've been hiding.
please show me the crystal ball that says anything more happened than what i wrote above.

DJT, junior and senior, and the rest of the white house staff, have shown themselves to be untrustworthy scum. it may well be that there are more lies yet to be uncovered, maybe something has happened after all and it will one day be revealed. but people said the same about benghazi, and the emails. and thats all we can comment on - what is known at this time. and what is known is not a crime.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #62
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i doubt it. it depends what you are going to charge them with. there are two options i can see.

soliciting something of value to the campaign from a non citizen:
except there is no evidence they actually did that. they didnt solicit anything, and they didnt get anything of value. hard to make a case here

lying about something you did.
if denying something is a crime, most politicians are on the way to prison. i doubt the democrats will push this line, because too many of them will be in the firing line if it is successful.
The ol' "The other guy did it/does it too" defense?

Last edited by imaginethat; July 11th, 2017 at 07:58 PM.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:02 PM   #63
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Yeah, but....

DJT Jr. is on record as saying he never had any contact with any Russians.
was he under oath? if he was, well thats a crime, he should be arrested immediately and charged with contempt of whichever legal venue asked the question.

oh, he hasnt been arrested and charged? so the question was asked in a forum where it was NOT a crime to lie. it might have been unethical to lie, but its not a crime.

repeat that: its not a crime.

i am with you all the way on the ethics and morality of his behaviour, but thats not the issue. its not a crime.

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He's a damned liar just like his Dad.
no disagreement from me, he is scum, they all are. they are liars and cheats and they just dont care about anything as long as they win. but thats not a crime. and that is the only thing that matters in this debate - what law was broken. "being a dishonest asshole" is not breaking the law.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:05 PM   #64
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The ol' "The other guy did it/does it too" defense?
?

no.

the defense is that his behaviour was not criminal.

he did not solicit something of value from a non citizen

nor did he lie in a forum where he was legally compelled to be truthful.

what the other guy did doesnt come into it.

hes an asshole, hes a liar, hes scum, hes unethical, immoral, and without question unworthy of having a place anywhere near the head of a branch of government. but he has not broken the law.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #65
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Sit with that for a minute: The eldest son of the de facto Republican presidential nominee reportedly met with someone he knew was peddling information as part of a Russian government effort to elect his dad. That's stunning. There's just no other word for it.
Please follow this.

Trump hired Manafort. Manafort led Ukrainian Viktor Yanukovych's presidential campaign. Yanukovych is Putin's favorite. Manafort helped Putin's favorite get elected.

Trump hired Manafort....
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:18 PM   #66
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was he under oath? if he was, well thats a crime, he should be arrested immediately and charged with contempt of whichever legal venue asked the question.

oh, he hasnt been arrested and charged? so the question was asked in a forum where it was NOT a crime to lie. it might have been unethical to lie, but its not a crime.

repeat that: its not a crime.

i am with you all the way on the ethics and morality of his behaviour, but thats not the issue. its not a crime.



no disagreement from me, he is scum, they all are. they are liars and cheats and they just dont care about anything as long as they win. but thats not a crime. and that is the only thing that matters in this debate - what law was broken. "being a dishonest asshole" is not breaking the law.
Bald face lies are criminal but not little white lies. What is a little white lie? A little white lie boosts the ego.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:21 PM   #67
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Yeah, but....

DJT Jr. is on record as saying he never had any contact with any Russians.
was he under oath? if he was, well thats a crime, he should be arrested immediately and charged with contempt of whichever legal venue asked the question.

oh, he hasnt been arrested and charged? so the question was asked in a forum where it was NOT a crime to lie. it might have been unethical to lie, but its not a crime.

repeat that: its not a crime.

i am with you all the way on the ethics and morality of his behaviour, but thats not the issue. its not a crime.
I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat
He's a damned liar just like his Dad.
no disagreement from me, he is scum, they all are. they are liars and cheats and they just dont care about anything as long as they win. but thats not a crime. and that is the only thing that matters in this debate - what law was broken. "being a dishonest asshole" is not breaking the law.
At this point, enough evidence exists for guilt or innocence to be decided by a court, imo.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:25 PM   #68
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Bald face lies are criminal but not little white lies. What is a little white lie? A little white lie boosts the ego.
when DJT was asked "did you meet with any russians or their representatives?" was it in a forum such as a courtroom or congressional investigation, where he was legally required to be truthful?

or was it a journalist in a corridor? was it an interveiw on some media network? if it was, its not illegal. its dodgy, its bad, it sucks, but its not a crime.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:33 PM   #69
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I see.

At this point, enough evidence exists for guilt or innocence to be decided by a court, imo.
maybe. and there are some lawyers who agree with you. i would welcome a formal trial/ hearing/ indictment/ whateveritscalled just because it might bring this whole thing to an end. but i cannot see how they construct a case against anyone on with the evidence they have. but i am not a lawyer.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 08:44 PM   #70
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Please follow this.

Trump hired Manafort. Manafort led Ukrainian Viktor Yanukovych's presidential campaign. Yanukovych is Putin's favorite. Manafort helped Putin's favorite get elected.

Trump hired Manafort....
in australia we call it 'spin'.

trump has always said he will make america great by surrounding himself with great people. Manafort is a successful lawyer and businessman, and has demonstrated his ability to lead successful election campaigns. he was as it turned out, an excellent choice, being as successful in amercia as he was in ukraine. for anyone seeking an electoral mandate, i would recommend Mr manafort as the most brilliant campaign manager you could have.

spin.
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