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Old August 7th, 2017, 04:10 PM   #131
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You have yet to answer, what is the procedure a judge or Justice uses to determine the true meaning of our Constitution?


JWK
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Old August 7th, 2017, 06:48 PM   #132
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You have yet to answer, what is the procedure a judge or Justice uses to determine the true meaning of our Constitution?


JWK
I told you, they follow supreme court precedent.
Which is based on a majority opinion.
Which is based on what each judge considers relevant.

That's in the real world, in your world, I assume they play mumbletypeg, that's what you're going for, right?
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Old August 8th, 2017, 03:46 AM   #133
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I told you, they follow supreme court precedent.
That does not answer the following question:


What is the procedure a judge or Justice uses to determine the true meaning of our Constitution?


JWK






American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.

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Old August 8th, 2017, 04:07 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
That does not answer the following question:


What is the procedure a judge or Justice uses to determine the true meaning of our Constitution?


JWK






American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.

The supreme court justice decides based on their understanding of what the constitution requires.
Your opinion of what that procedure should be, is your opinion, which is not relevant.

A justice may hold that the original intent of the authors is all that matters, a justice may hold that the meaning of the words, that is today's understanding of the words, is all that matters.

There is nothing in the constitution that requires any particular method.
And since there is no appeal possible, whatever the court decides is the meaning of the constitution.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 04:32 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
I told you, they follow supreme court precedent.
Which is based on a majority opinion.
Which is based on what each judge considers relevant.

That's in the real world, in your world, I assume they play mumbletypeg, that's what you're going for, right?
Oh, he's just playing a game. Note how he insists on saying "TRUE meaning."
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Old August 8th, 2017, 07:25 AM   #136
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Oh, he's just playing a game. Note how he insists on saying "TRUE meaning."
The true meaning of the constitution, is like the one true God, it's a matter of personal opinion.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 07:59 AM   #137
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The true meaning of the constitution, is like the one true God, it's a matter of personal opinion.
Of course. Thank God we have a Supreme Court to decide such things.

You would think these people would understand that there is a reason it's called the SUPREME Court.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 09:04 AM   #138
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You need to take a class in constitutional construction 101

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The true meaning of the constitution, is like the one true God, it's a matter of personal opinion.
Wrong. It's a matter of documenting the intentions and beliefs under which our Constitution was adopted as expressed during our Constitution's framing and ratification debates.


You need to take a class in constitutional construction 101

Let us establish what the most fundamental rule of constitutional construction is.

Intent of constitution

16 Am Jur 2d Constitutional law
Par. 92. Intent of framers and adopters as controlling.


The fundamental principle of constitutional construction is that effect must be given to the intent of the framers of the organic law and of the people adopting it. This is the polestar in the construction of constitutions, all other principles of construction are only rules or guides to aid in the determination of the intention of the constitution’s framers.



16 Am Jur, Constitutional Law, “Rules of Construction, Generally”

Par. 88--Proceedings of conventions and debates.

Under the principle that a judicial tribunal, in interpreting ambiguous provisions, may have recourse to contemporaneous interpretations so as to determine the intention of the framers of the constitution, the rule is well established that in the construction of a constitution, recourse may be had to proceedings in the convention which drafted the instrument. (numerous citations omitted )


Also see par. 89-- The Federalist and other contemporary writings“

Under the rule that contemporaneous construction may be referred to it is an accepted principle that in the interpretation of the Constitution of the United States recourse may be had to the Federalist since the papers included in that work were the handiwork of three eminent statesmen, two of whom had been members of the convention which framed the Constitution. Accordingly, frequent references have been made to these papers in opinions considering constitutional questions and they have sometimes been accorded considerable weight.” (numerous citations omitted )



Also see:

Meaning of Language
Ordinary meaning, generally

”Words or terms used in a constitution, being dependent on ratification by the people voting upon it, must be understood in the sense most obvious to the common understanding at the time of its adoption…”__ (my emphasis) The Court is not free to make the words or phrases in our Constitution mean whatever they so desire, but are confined to their original understanding as understood by our founding fathers.




JWK




"A thing may be within the letter of a statute and not within its meaning, and within its meaning, though not within its letter. The intention of the lawmaker is the law."
___ Mr. Justice Swayne in 90 U.S. 380


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Old August 8th, 2017, 12:11 PM   #139
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That's the opinion expressed in an article in American jurisprudence.
In reality, the process is different.
Which if you had ever taken an actual course in the subject, they would have covered that.
Google is no substitute for a good education.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 05:35 AM   #140
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That's the opinion expressed in an article in American jurisprudence.
.
No! What I posted in post number 139 are a number of principles of constitutional construction which have been repeatedly confirmed by authoritative sources, including our very own Supreme Court.

Without an adherence to such principles, our Constitution would become a meaningless document subject to the mere whims and fancies of those who exercise government power, just as is done in Venezuela.


JWK




"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." -- Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968

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