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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:33 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
Here we go again. You're like the guys wanting to stereotype me, right? Sorry, I don't fit a pre-made mold.

I support an employer's right to hire whomever they choose to fill the position. If you want Americans to have a better than even chance to get a job, you should allow the free market to work.

One better idea that Trump should have considered was one of my own. I would allow employers to hire whomever they want and then:

* Allow substantial tax breaks to take Americans off welfare, unemployment and offer jobs to the handicapped

* An additional tax break for companies to hire an all American work-force

* Tax incentives to pay that all American workforce 15 percent above the minimum wage as a starting wage

* Tax incentives to bring jobs back to the United States.
Which is a long, roundabout way of saying "look, squirrel" as you support illegals getting jobs.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
There is a myriad of economic solutions that would force Mexico to pay for the Wall. Mexico has long used the U.S. and a safety valve for ridding themselves of citizens they don't want to support. Hence, the battle to stop the Wall. The simple fact is, illegal aliens are NOT adding to our economy, they are sucking every cent they can out of it. To the tune of $Billions of dollars annually in supplementation. Who's money are they taking?
It bothers me that Americans, especially conservatives, do not understand the economics of their own country. What you claim are facts are easily dismissed myths that cannot stand up under close scrutiny.

Let me give you a quick economics lesson. In America we operate off of fractional reserve banking. In layman's terms, a bank can loan four dollars for every one it has in assets. Now, let's apply this to an average American transaction:

You offer a construction job and here come the people to bid on the job. Redneck Bubba with his gas guzzler truck comes along and says he can do the job for $15,000. Pedro comes along and says he can do the same, exact job for $10,000.

If you hire Bubba, not only do you pay more, but he and his entourage make much more in wages where they buy products made in racist countries like China and Japan. All of your effort has negligible benefit to the U.S. economy.

If Pedro does the job, you save $5000 on the project cost, but wait... that additional $5000 can be held in the bank where it is now $20,000 that can be loaned out on paper. That money is available for U.S. companies to expand; other homeowners can borrow that money to fix their homes and increase the value thereof (increasing the bank's ability to loan out even more money.)

That is a no brainer. But, there is even more:

Foreign laborers produce more in terms of productivity for dollar spent. So, if the Americans want the jobs, all they have to do is work for less and produce more.

Then again, if you're so uneducated and lazy that all you qualify for is a job that a foreigner with no education or job skills qualifies for, maybe you should rethink your career path.

Also see this:

https://www.cato.org/publications/co...nfluence-world
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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
Here we go again. You're like the guys wanting to stereotype me, right? Sorry, I don't fit a pre-made mold.

I support an employer's right to hire whomever they choose to fill the position. If you want Americans to have a better than even chance to get a job, you should allow the free market to work.

One better idea that Trump should have considered was one of my own. I would allow employers to hire whomever they want and then:

* Allow substantial tax breaks to take Americans off welfare, unemployment and offer jobs to the handicapped

* An additional tax break for companies to hire an all American work-force

* Tax incentives to pay that all American workforce 15 percent above the minimum wage as a starting wage

* Tax incentives to bring jobs back to the United States.
I think we need to rewrite the entire corporate tax code. It needs to be very very simple. It'll still be progressive but with very few "incentives" or other tax breaks. We need to wipe out all the loop holes that let a corporation make 16 billion dollars in profit yet not only NOT pay any taxes but actually get a REFUND.

There WILL be a minimum tax rate, say 10%. The ONLY "incentives or targeted tax breaks" will be JOB CREATION and SUSTAINMENT. Like you say every time they grow the work force they get a tax break. Every time they increase pay to their employees, they get a tax break (actually a double bump as they write off the additional payroll expense and collect a lower tax rate for doing so). You bring a factory home ? boom instant minimum tax rate that year. But every one will pay a minimum. Corporations benefit from good roads, safe cities and an educated population. It's ridiculous when they don't pay taxes that support that infrastructure.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:46 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Which is a long, roundabout way of saying "look, squirrel" as you support illegals getting jobs.
No, it's my way of saying that the government that governs least governs best.

No need to put words into my mouth.

In the 1970s, when I was a kid, I was out there marching against affirmative action, racial quotas, preferential hiring schemes, and reverse discrimination. Back then, my critics would call me a nazi, KKK member, etc., etc.

ALL I did in those days is to say the employer is the most qualified to know who the best candidate for a job is. Nothing's changed and you will swear before God that I'm a liberal that supports "illegals," as you love to call them, getting jobs.

If they implemented my ideas, no employer would be forced to hire any given employee. That way, the market would decide. IF a company hires too many of those "illegal aliens" as you call them, you don't buy their products or use their services, they go belly up... if the majority feels as you do.

Let society make the call. Don't expect government to save you from yourself.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:50 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
No, it's my way of saying that the government that governs least governs best.

No need to put words into my mouth.

In the 1970s, when I was a kid, I was out there marching against affirmative action, racial quotas, preferential hiring schemes, and reverse discrimination. Back then, my critics would call me a nazi, KKK member, etc., etc.

ALL I did in those days is to say the employer is the most qualified to know who the best candidate for a job is. Nothing's changed and you will swear before God that I'm a liberal that supports "illegals," as you love to call them, getting jobs.

If they implemented my ideas, no employer would be forced to hire any given employee. That way, the market would decide. IF a company hires too many of those "illegal aliens" as you call them, you don't buy their products or use their services, they go belly up... if the majority feels as you do.

Let society make the call. Don't expect government to save you from yourself.
I really hope you get the chance to live in the society you wish for. But I like to breath, I like to take a walk in the forest. I like all kinds of things that would disappear in your system. So not for me, thanks.
Thanks from Hollywood
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:03 AM   #106
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GIVE TAX BREAKS FOR OBEYING THE LAW?????

yep, that sounds like a right wing idea
Thanks from Hollywood
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:04 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
IF a company hires too many of those "illegal aliens" as you call them, you don't buy their products or use their services, they go belly up... if the majority feels as you do.

Let society make the call. Don't expect government to save you from yourself.
But therein lies the problem. HOW would we know which companies are hiring illegals ?? It's not like they're going to report to the government how many of their people are actually citizens and how many are not ??

No sir, any company that wants to do business in this country has an obligation to support the economy and infrastructure of the country. That starts with ONLY being able to hire citizens. After that, yes good old supply and demand can set the prevailing wages above a minimum. But first we need to eliminate the artificial downward influence that illegals bring to the market. Even companies that do not directly hire the illegals reap huge benefits from their presence in the country. It ripples all the way up well into the middle class salary ranges.
Thanks from Hollywood
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:20 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
I really hope you get the chance to live in the society you wish for. But I like to breath, I like to take a walk in the forest. I like all kinds of things that would disappear in your system. So not for me, thanks.
What you say is odd. Our forefathers operated on the same principles I'm advocating and wanted what you claim to want.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
But therein lies the problem. HOW would we know which companies are hiring illegals ?? It's not like they're going to report to the government how many of their people are actually citizens and how many are not ??

No sir, any company that wants to do business in this country has an obligation to support the economy and infrastructure of the country. That starts with ONLY being able to hire citizens. After that, yes good old supply and demand can set the prevailing wages above a minimum. But first we need to eliminate the artificial downward influence that illegals bring to the market. Even companies that do not directly hire the illegals reap huge benefits from their presence in the country. It ripples all the way up well into the middle class salary ranges.

Don't kid yourself. Businesses go where there is a profit to be made.

IF business has any such obligation to support the economy, so would you. If that were the case, why do you do the bulk of your shopping in places that sell goods made in foreign countries? You do it to save money.

Who is forcing you?

For all this talk against American employers, you see little of those same people advocating personal responsibility... like boycotting companies such as Walmart - who was convicted of knowingly using subcontractors that were hiring undocumented foreigners.

Look in your own homes. Products made in Japan, Taiwan, China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Vietnam are probably 80 percent or more of the items you own. But, what you're arguing is that you need a government big enough to save you from yourself.

You're focused so much on the "legal" status of others that you have no real problem to pay attention to. If you have the jobs and the employer has the incentive to hire you, what difference does it make about others?
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:31 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
GIVE TAX BREAKS FOR OBEYING THE LAW?????

yep, that sounds like a right wing idea
Give me a law that says any employer is required to give any preference to people on welfare, unemployment, etc. versus hiring a foreigner OR a person that already has a job.

Unless you can produce that law, you are only trolling.
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