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Old September 13th, 2017, 04:15 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Naw, you're just juvenile. Had you been at my table and spouted that crap I'd just have pointed to the door and said "bye". But then I have no need to try and impose my biases on anyone nor control the way they think.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 04:19 PM   #92
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of course you do.

you've been doing it on this thread alone for two pages
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Old September 13th, 2017, 04:21 PM   #93
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you're such a liar.

that is not my quote

my post was a reply to your message which was included in my post

you're a liar - which is pretty incredible, considering how awesome you tell us you are
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Old September 13th, 2017, 05:21 PM   #94
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Tristan suffers from the "my way or the HWY" Syndrome that most bigots suffer from. He also seems to struggle with his sexuality more than anyone I've eve known. His sexual identity and political leanings are as fascist and hate filled as anyone I've ever met. He seems to have successfully bullied his family into denying (at least in his presence) their beliefs. He, like most bigots from ANY persuasion delight in having the capability of being able to browbeat others into at least superficially behaving the way he demands them to behave.
from what i have seen, this is true since trump won the election. like a lot of left wingers, tristanrobin didnt cope well with that, and had a bit of a meltdown. prior to trump he was entirely reasonable.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Your sophomoric armchair Oprah pseudo psychological diagnosis of me is not only wrong but incredibly juvenile and ignorant.

But, bloviate away - everything you write expresses far more about you than it does about me.

It's not armchair psychology when you yourself admit you brow beat your family into towing the line. And our many conversations over the years make everything he says extremely evident. You've already tuned out the words I'm typing right now and I don't need to be an oracle to see it coming. Nor do I need to be a mind reader to see why.

Deep down your narcissism is fueled by your desire to not self examine, in likelihood because you hold contempt for some aspect of yourself. It's why you constantly tout your sexuality and opinions for brownie points when by your own admission being gay doesn't matter. It's why you never bother to make any real argument either- you treat this forum for arguing with people like a social media site, retweeting opinion pieces like the OP and dropping god awful 2 line zingers for that easy "gotcha" cred. Maybe it works in your shallow social circles where conformity is the name of the game, but everyone you interact with on this site is here to argue, hear opposing viewpoints, and hopefully learn something or grow as a person. What exactly are you here for? To proclaim in your warped indignation that you are the most morally righteous man in the room? This isn't your WordPress, and the fact that you act as though it does alienates you, even from people in the past who would have defended you.

You're insecure and hold some kind of contempt for yourself; but you are not the only person in the world with that problem. You are not the only person on this board with that problem. You are not the only person in this thread with that problem. The difference is that you don't make an effort to be a better man. Others here don't sit there and close themselves and their minds off from reality because it's difficult. You sit here and sling shit at everyone who doesn't swallow the bullshit you espouse because at some instinctual level you know it's a castle built on a foundation of sand. You don't listen to anyone or anything which would force you to introspect on your grandiose delusios of moral righteousness, neither here on DTT nor at home, and I'm sure we can assume your "friends" would receive the same treatment have they the audacity to call a spade a spade.

This is why I made it a point to say that you are repugnant man to look at. It's not about pushing away your family per se, it's the fact that you cast aside the most important people in life to protect a self image that is not only self destructive, but that you KNOW is. None of your rants about Trump, right wingers or anything of that nature have much at all to do with them- if it did, you wouldn't disregard so easily the words they actually say to you. No, you rail so hard against them because you want to aggrandize the walls you've built up by attacking a made up enemy.

You're going to do one of 3 things after this post. A ) put me on ignore or not read it at all. B ) reiterate your point about it all just being armchair psychology and that in reality most of the people you interact with can't stand you because you're just such a beautiful being, or C ) call it all projection and use it as more fodder to bring down everyone around you to make yourself feel like you're not a walking disgrace. Or some combination thereof.

But what I don't want you or anyone reading this to misunderstand, is that you are your biggest enemy. I would love it if you were more open to debate on a fucking debate forum. I would love it if you could learn to love yourself and your family regardless of what you disagree on. But the reality, Tristan, is that nobody in your life wants you to fail more than you do. That's what is truly unsightly about you.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 06:16 PM   #96
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Is that from reading about what other haters say about the Koran, about reading the Koran or about having direct experience with Muslims?
i avoid haters, they use emotion rather than facts. no, my understanding is from reading the quran and hadith and sira, and seeing what happens in the real world when actual muslims implement that doctrine. you have seen it too, its called islamic state. also the taliban. and boko haram. and the regime in iran and saudi arabia. and the other sharia states in the middle east, north africa and increasingly south east asia. and the ghettos in europe, the 'no go zones'. other ideologies, whether religious or political, dont create this kind of hell. its just islam. denying that is denying reality.

its also from reading what actual muslims experience and, a perspective you rarely hear, what ex-muslims experience. its from interacting with real muslims and watching them twist and turn when trying to justify belief in their doctrine, watching their reaction when they learn for the first time what muhammad actually did because nobody has ever told them the truth about their own religion.

sure there are morons who say "everything i need to know about islam i learned on 9/11" but thats just stupid. i remember 9/11, its one of the things that prompted me to study islam in detail. another was a patient, he had just apostasised from islam and had got a message from his parents that the next time they see him they were going to kill him. he very matter-of-fact-ly mentioned that was a cornerstone of islamic teachings. these sort of things made me think, made me want to know where the truth was.

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I can't claim the first two, but I have worked closely with 4 Muslims who were devout in terms of their prayers and attending mosque and other outward signs.
absolutely. i have done the same, i have covered for more than one doctor when it was prayer time. i have had a staff lunch rescheduled because it was ramadan and we wanted everyone to be there.

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And please admit that neither you nor I can say with certitude what is in their hearts.
as you say, i cannot say that any more than you can.

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And those 4 were fine, gentle, peaceful human beings who it appears believed strongly.
yes, they believed. they really did, genuinely and honestly believe that the core doctrine of islam was peace, love and respect, and they genuinely believe that the terrorist and extremist side of islam is a not supported by islamic doctrine. that doesnt make them good muslims though, it makes them ignorant muslims. non quranic muslims.

or, they believed, truly and genuinely, that its best for islam to take over the world and for everyone to live under sharia. but its a long game. their role is not to maim and kill, but to make islam appear reasonable, to make islam a regular part of life, accepted and tolerated, so that when sharia comes, probably a few generations away, its not a big step. thats their jihad. you cannot say that wasnt their attitude.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 06:33 PM   #97
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i avoid haters, they use emotion rather than facts. no, my understanding is from reading the quran and hadith and sira, and seeing what happens in the real world when actual muslims implement that doctrine. you have seen it too, its called islamic state. also the taliban. and boko haram. and the regime in iran and saudi arabia. and the other sharia states in the middle east, north africa and increasingly south east asia. and the ghettos in europe, the 'no go zones'. other ideologies, whether religious or political, dont create this kind of hell. its just islam. denying that is denying reality.

its also from reading what actual muslims experience and, a perspective you rarely hear, what ex-muslims experience. its from interacting with real muslims and watching them twist and turn when trying to justify belief in their doctrine, watching their reaction when they learn for the first time what muhammad actually did because nobody has ever told them the truth about their own religion.

sure there are morons who say "everything i need to know about islam i learned on 9/11" but thats just stupid. i remember 9/11, its one of the things that prompted me to study islam in detail. another was a patient, he had just apostasised from islam and had got a message from his parents that the next time they see him they were going to kill him. he very matter-of-fact-ly mentioned that was a cornerstone of islamic teachings. these sort of things made me think, made me want to know where the truth was.



absolutely. i have done the same, i have covered for more than one doctor when it was prayer time. i have had a staff lunch rescheduled because it was ramadan and we wanted everyone to be there.


as you say, i cannot say that any more than you can.


yes, they believed. they really did, genuinely and honestly believe that the core doctrine of islam was peace, love and respect, and they genuinely believe that the terrorist and extremist side of islam is a not supported by islamic doctrine. that doesnt make them good muslims though, it makes them ignorant muslims. non quranic muslims.

or, they believed, truly and genuinely, that its best for islam to take over the world and for everyone to live under sharia. but its a long game. their role is not to maim and kill, but to make islam appear reasonable, to make islam a regular part of life, accepted and tolerated, so that when sharia comes, probably a few generations away, its not a big step. thats their jihad. you cannot say that wasnt their attitude.
You are as bad as the christian fundie menace. Your interpretation of the Koran is correct and theirs is wrong. How do I know? Because you say so.

I don't think so.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 08:42 PM   #98
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You are as bad as the christian fundie menace.
i have never shot an abortion doctor, nor picketted a military funeral. i believe in free speech and tolerance. is that the christian fundie way?

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Your interpretation of the Koran is correct and theirs is wrong. How do I know? Because you say so.

I don't think so.
nope. not even close.

i constantly show you what is actually in the quran. you know, actual quotes. not just claims, which is all you get from muslim apologists, i dont talk about the quran, which is all muslim apologists do, i dont make claims about what it might say, i actually quote it. like this.

33:36. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error

9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.

9:29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:38. O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allah (i.e. Jihad) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world as compared with the Hereafter.
39. If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people

111. Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed.

i dont know how much you have debated with muslims, but ponder this: how often do muslims quote the quran? look through yenis various posts, i dont think yeni has ever actually quoted the words she claims are the perfect word of a flawless god. the nice muslims you know never quote it either. muslim apologists when interviewed dont quote it either. the only people you will hear regularly quoting the quran are critics of islam, like me. because its full of violence and hate. see the verses above, are you claiming they are not encouraging violence and killing?

of course, muslims will claim "these verses only applied in muhammads time" but they will NEVER show you the part of islamic doctrine that explains that. BECAUSE THERE ISNT ANY. ITS A CLAIM THATS A BLATANT LIE. there is nothing in islamic doctrine that says these verses shouldn't be followed, explicitly and literally. quite the opposite, there are passages that indicate the quran, including these passages preaching violent jihad, should be followed explicitly and literally.

thats why they do it. next time there is a jihadi terrorist event, make the effort to chase down the story of the offender, it will go something like this:
"he was always such a nice boy, played football and hated math, he wasnt raised particularly religious, and he never got into any trouble. he became interested in islam, and over the last year or so became more and more involved. he started attending the mosque regularly, praying regularly, tried to encourage the rest of us to pray too, and he read the quran every day. then he suddenly killed 12 innocent strangers."
thats a very common story.
then it will go:
"we have no idea where this violent urge came from"
well, i know, and now you know too. it came from the quran. not a twisted misquoted out of context lie, but an honest and straightforward read.

also, look at the oppression in islamic state, iran, saudi arabia, increasingly in turkey and pakistan, and north africa. how do they justify their abuse? with the quran. thats all they need, they dont need to take anything out of context, or misquote it, they just need to follow it as written. if anyone questions their violence the regime can just ask that everyone read the quran, and its like "see, we have gods permission to do this".

its not about "interpreting" the quran, its about reading it.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 09:31 PM   #99
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i constantly show you what is actually in the quran. you know, actual quotes. not just claims, which is all you get from muslim apologists, i dont talk about the quran, which is all muslim apologists do, i dont make claims about what it might say, i actually quote it. like this.
Nope! What you do is cherry-pick some pretty weird quotes from the Quran and pretend that represents the fundamental teachings of the entire book. A common stunt with Islamaphobes....and about as meaningful as condemning the entire Bible and all Christians on the basis of these quotes from the Bible.....

St Paul’s advice about whether women are allowed to teach men in church: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

In this verse, Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighbouring people: “This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

A command of Moses: “Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18 )

The ending of Psalm 137 is often omitted from readings in church: “Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

Another blood-curdling tale from the Book of Judges, where an Israelite man is trapped in a house by a hostile crowd, and sends out his concubine to placate them: “So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28 )

In this story from the Book of Judges, an Israelite leader, Jephthah, makes a rash vow to God, which has to be carried out: “And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.'” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

The Lord is speaking to Abraham in this story where God commands him to sacrifice his son: "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you." (Genesis 22:2)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18 )
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Old September 13th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #100
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Nope! What you do is cherry-pick some pretty weird quotes from the Quran and pretend that represents the fundamental teachings of the entire book. A common stunt with Islamaphobes
please show the quran quotes i used in context to demonstrate how they are cherry picked and used out of context. or please post some other quotes from the quran that show why my quotes are not instructions to be followed.

you didnt even try to do this. no effort whatsoever to actually refute what i had posted. nothing. zero. all you have done is CLAIM its cherry picked and unrepresentative. a CLAIM without any evidence at all.

but, and this is where this debate goes insane, you think you have won. you actually think you have refuted my claims. in reality, all you have done is stamp your foot and yell "you're wrong" while presenting absolutely no evidence at all. yet, you believe you have won this argument. its nuts.

Quote:
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why the fuck to you bring up the bible when its totally irrelevant to the conversation? please stop trying to change the topic.
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