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Old October 8th, 2017, 10:55 AM   #51
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I get your points, I truly do. But, at the same time there has to be some form of compromise. This nation is heading down the path to civil war. Just look on DTT. You got elitists blaming anyone who is a Trump supporter for every problem there is up to and including those rogue comments on here usurping authority. TDS at its finest. You got the right with a chip on its shoulder just daring the left to act. You have open support of rebellion against the lawful government from the left because they lost an election. Were heading toward a civil war. If the left ever gains complete control, mark my words. They will come for every firearm, they will start making list of people and their political affiliation. All that Fascist crap they scream, they have already become.
Yep, the same was said after Obama was elected: They're coming for your guns.

And you guy, you're part of the problem if you can't see the elitism of the right, and its TLS.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 11:29 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Democrats had “total control” of the House of Representatives from 2009-2011, 2 full years. Democrats, and therefore, Obama, had “total control” of the Senate from September 24, 2009 until February 4, 2010.

Did they come for every firearm?? Talk about crap.
Because SCOTUS stopped them. Yes, they already had in Chicago and DC. SCOTUS put an end to that
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Old October 8th, 2017, 11:31 AM   #53
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Yep, the same was said after Obama was elected: They're coming for your guns.

And you guy, you're part of the problem if you can't see the elitism of the right, and its TLS.
They did come for them. Courts is the only thing that has stopped it from happening. Its happening now.
Oregon Cracks Down on Gun Rights in the Name of Suicide Prevention - Hit & Run : Reason.com

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...ned-in-america
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Old October 8th, 2017, 11:44 AM   #54
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That is a good, liberal double take.

I have Rights; the other guy has Rights. I'm not suggesting you take away the other guy's Rights. If we had our full auto weapons taken AND now have to carry permission papers in order to exercise a Right, it is not too much to expect that doctors only prescribe SSRIs as a LAST option and that IF they think a person is a danger to themselves and / or society, they be put into protective custody.

You and I know what rabbit hole you want to go down, but the liberals here are very careful not to explain what the "compromise" is every time. You guys want gun control on the installment plan without giving up anything in return.
Compromise? Let's see. How about a limit on magazine size? That's stupid, right?

Restrictions on gun ownership for diagnosed mentally unstable people? Who says who's mentally unstable? Nope.

Limitations on gun ownership for ex-fugitives? Same thing. What if the liberals identify me as a fugitive?

Background checks on gun sales at gun shows? .....Is nothing sacred?

Prohibitions on gun ownership by domestic abusers? More PC politics.

Sen. Collins bill to prohibit gun sales to people on terrorist watch lists? Collins may as well be a Democrat, right?

So, please list a compromise of which you could approve.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 11:49 AM   #55
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Compromise? Let's see. How about a limit on magazine size? That's stupid, right?

Restrictions on gun ownership for diagnosed mentally unstable people? Who says who's mentally unstable? Nope.

Limitations on gun ownership for ex-fugitives? Same thing. What if the liberals identify me as a fugitive?

Background checks on gun sales at gun shows? .....Is nothing sacred?

Prohibitions on gun ownership by domestic abusers? More PC politics.

Sen. Collins bill to prohibit gun sales to people on terrorist watch lists? Collins may as well be a Democrat, right?

So, please list a compromise of which you could approve.
1. Background check and permit for owning a full auto weapon.
2. Back ground check for all gun purchases.
3. Requirement to have to have a legal state ID, such as a drivers license if you possess a firearm outside your home and property. This is so police can verify if you are a felon or if you are on bail and are not allowed a firearm if stipulated by the court.

After that none of your above without due process of the law where you are allowed to plead your case on guilt or innocence. No seizing of firearms because someone said so. At all
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Old October 8th, 2017, 12:04 PM   #56
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The NRA, as has been revealed through its many legislative victories on gun matters over the years, is not dumb. And the group's decision to be for further regulation of bump stocks is clearly a strategic move aimed at avoiding any more sweeping or comprehensive attempts at gun control. .... an organization as politically aware of itself as the NRA is never not keeping an eye on its politics.

The NRA's quick response to Vegas is nothing more than a distraction. "Make no mistake: This move on bump stocks is an attempt by the NRA to stop a broad public debate on guns before it really begins in earnest. And it almost certainly will work."

The NRA's strategic ploy on bump stocks - CNNPolitics
Exactly! Though I'm wondering if the NRA leaves themselves open to more questions, such as: WHY NOT BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS these devices are used in? Who needs an AR-15? Can anyone come up with a good reason they need these kinds of weapons for self-defense? I hope the NRA's strategic retreat turns into a total collapse when their rhetoric and paid political hacks are put to the test.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 12:14 PM   #57
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They did come for them. Courts is the only thing that has stopped it from happening. Its happening now.
Oregon Cracks Down on Gun Rights in the Name of Suicide Prevention - Hit & Run : Reason.com

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...ned-in-america
Again, how did Obama come for your guns (my point before you changed it)?

As for Oregon, do you deny Oregon citizens' sovereignty over what happens within Oregon's borders? You do know that 2/3rds of all gun deaths are self-inflicted, right?
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Old October 8th, 2017, 12:32 PM   #58
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A Sick Country Filled With Guns

One thing I get sick of that pops up with every gun control debate is that it is turned into an either/or dilemma: availability of guns vs signs of mental and moral decay in society...that is provided its a white bread shooteer..with money I might add! If the mass killer in Vegas was black or if he was a Muslim, it would have been covered totally different!

I just happened to be still up when the first word of the massacre unfolding was coming from Las Vegas...which was about 2:00 am here on the east coast; and I remember after seeing the story come up trending on my Twitter feed that CNN was the first news source mentioned. They titled their breaking news: Crazed gunman kills two, injures dozens at Las Vegas outdoor concert. No mention of 'terrorist' or any other buzzwords, cause they didn't have a suspect who looked like an Arab!

Anyway, this shouldn't be a debate about whether its people going crazy or because guns are available. Sure, back in the old days when there were few gun crimes many of us had guns present...my dad's gun case out on our farm looked like a glass doored china cabinet....in fact it was right next to the china cabinet in the dining room! It had a simple, easy to break lock, but there was never a break-in...even though anyone who drove up to the front could have easily seen that guncase through the front dining room window. And neither myself or any of my brothers took any guns out unauthorized....though we did all learn how to shoot and went hunting. Sure it was a different time, but now America is:
A Sick Country Filled With Guns
https://theintercept.com/2017/10/07/...led-with-guns/
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We live in a sick country. A country where it’s legal for someone to purchase 30 assault weapons and unlimited ammunition, weapons that really only have one purpose: to hunt and kill other human beings. A country where a cabal of high-powered lobbyists, bought-off politicians, and gun manufacturers profits off of massacres, where the meaning of the Second Amendment has been twisted so intensely that it no longer matters why it was written or what it was actually intended for.

The leaders of the National Rifle Association, who would be viewed as terrorist enablers and promoters in a sane society, they don’t like the first part of the Second Amendment — so much so that they don’t include it in their very public memorializing of their Holy Bible of gun addition.

The version of the Second Amendment displayed at the NRA’s headquarters doesn’t include the first half of the Second Amendment. The NRA only wants you to focus on the second half, which says, “… the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” The first part of the Second Amendment, which the NRA finds too inconvenient to include, states, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State …”

Was the Las Vegas shooter a member of a well-regulated militia? No. Were any of the murderers who shot up schools or religious assemblies or workplaces members of a well-regulated militia? No. And regulated — that’s an interesting word, because no thoughtful person can really argue that guns in the United States are actually regulated in any meaningful way. In this country, you can buy dozens of assault weapons. You can store enough guns and ammunition in your garage to wage a small war. Why? Because the Second Amendment has been laundered through lobbyists, and some Supreme Court justices, to mean something it does not mean.

The coalition that fans the flames of fear and promotes the idea that guns keep us safe — that the solution to gun violence is more guns — makes a shitload of money off of all this death and misery. And they will make more money off of the Las Vegas massacre.

You can murder 20 innocent children between the ages of 6 and 7 at Sandy Hook Elementary School and these villains are unmoved in their belief in the golden calf of assault rifles. “If only the teachers had been armed, those kids might be alive today. Now let’s check out our stock prices.”

Each time we’re faced with a new mass murder with guns, in this case 58 killed and more than 500 wounded, we end up in the same place: “Let’s pray. Let’s tweak this or that law. Let’s talk about using acoustic sensors to detect gunshots. Let’s put armed private security in schools. Let’s use the terrorist watchlist to deny gun purchases. Let’s have more surveillance, more religious and racial profiling.” Which is absurd, given that most mass shooters are white.

None of what most politicians and TV pundits offer up in the aftermath of these killings is going to do anything to solve the real issue: We are a nation filled to the brim with guns, including assault weapons that are actually meant for assaulting people. Not for hunting. Not for sport, unless your sport is murder.

Watch what happens in Congress in the coming days. Empty platitudes. Bullshit proposals: “We must do something about this.” And, of course, a lot of prayer. But none of that is going to change to the fact that we live in a sick society that believes guns bring us security. A nation that has been taught by powerful, twisted people that guns aren’t part of the problem. That everything except guns — and how easy they are to get — is the problem. Mental illness is the problem. Muslims are the problem. Gangbangers in Chicago are the problem. Not having a gun is the problem. And when these mass shootings happen, most of the time, the shooter is a white man. We want to know who he was, why did it, what his motive was, as we should. But compare that to how black victims of police killings are treated in the media: “Well, did they do drugs? What were they wearing? Did they have a criminal record? Did they listen to hip hop? Where are the fathers?”

After he was killed by George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin was characterized as a thug, his hooded sweatshirt somehow evidence that he was scary or menacing. That’s how black victims are portrayed. After police shot Tamir Rice, the head of Miami’s police union called the 12-year-old a thug, saying that if you act like a thug, you’ll get treated like one.

Contrast that with some of the stories we’ve seen about the Las Vegas shooter — not victim — shooter! One headline (since changed) in the Washington Post said he “enjoyed gambling, country music, lived quiet life before massacre.” Black victim is a thug; white shooter is a character from a country western song who just happens to murder 58 people. It’s sick. And this is a pattern.

What if mass shootings carried out by white men were covered the same way that stories involving shooters of other races are covered on a daily basis in this country? White-on-white crime. Let’s investigate country music and its violent lyrics. Let’s find some white people brave enough to speak out on this pandemic of white men carrying out mass shootings at an alarming rate. And let’s make them speak for their entire race.

We all know why the narratives are different. And another thing: We’re hearing once again that this is the most deadly mass shooting in U.S. history. It’s just not true. There are several examples of white gunmen killing huge numbers of black people. The 1917 East St. Louis massacre resulted in an estimated 100 black people being shot and lynched; in 1873, between 60 and 150 black people were massacred in Colfax, Louisiana. We don’t even know the exact numbers of Native Americans killed in mass shootings since the founding of the United States: Hundreds were killed in places like Sand Creek, Clear Lake, and Wounded Knee.

Donald Trump, who boasts that he’ll be the best friend the NRA could possibly have in the White House, suddenly found God when he first addressed the Las Vegas shooting. Let’s be real: Trump’s deepest connection to the Bible is watching Charlton Heston as Moses. But religious Trump, who speaks from the Scriptures, was praised for his perfect tone across the media. Specifically, on CNN: “Just what we needed to hear.”

A big part of our problem on guns is how it’s discussed in the media. Presidents who get prayerful are praised instead of held accountable for the role they play in sustaining this nation’s gun addiction, in promoting the gun industry that profits off of murder. When the shooter is an Arab or a Muslim, they are often immediately branded as a suspected terrorist. After Las Vegas, the president and other politicians called this shooter “deranged” or “insane” or another word that’s lost all meaning — “evil.”

When it’s a Muslim shooter, it’s perfectly acceptable to talk about what the U.S. response should be: watchlisting, banning people from entering the country, surveillance of mosques. But when white people do the killing, don’t talk about guns. That’s politicizing the tragedy, disrespecting the victims. Whether it’s someone inspired by ISIS murdering his coworkers or a white man shooting up a school or a white man gunning down Sikhs because he thought they were Muslims, they all do it with guns.

We don’t need prayers. We don’t need fake unity over the tragedy. We need to look at the common factor in all of these heinous acts of mass murder: guns. Anything else is just putting a Band-Aid on a gaping, infected, and lethal wound on our society.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 01:21 PM   #59
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Exactly! Though I'm wondering if the NRA leaves themselves open to more questions, such as: WHY NOT BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS these devices are used in? Who needs an AR-15? Can anyone come up with a good reason they need these kinds of weapons for self-defense? I hope the NRA's strategic retreat turns into a total collapse when their rhetoric and paid political hacks are put to the test.

Right to Left, This issue has nothing to do with need. We surpassed/moved that goalpost years ago. This issue is about ONE thing and ONE thing only: POWER.

I had this discussion with one of the RWs a couple of weeks ago and here's the summary. I'm paraphrasing.
I said: How much do you need? (similar to your question).
He said (it's always a HE): We need enough to secure this nation and it's individuals.
I said: Okay, we've got the strongest military (militia) in the world. We the people can keep/purchase and bear as many "arms" as we want. AND no one is taking those "arms" away from us. So, again.....how much is enough?
We the people have followed the 2nd amendment TO THE LETTER, so what more do we "need". Can't we "cap" it? Put a lid on it?

To repeat: This has nothing to do with need--we have ALL WE NEED. The 2nd amendment's recipe's main ingredient is POWER. Add several cups of politics. A heaping tablespoon of FEAR. Stir with an NRA spoon and voila.......you've got assault weapons, silencers, and military strength in the hands of people like whos-its in Vegas.
Guns have changed since the 2nd Amendment was written so why haven't our laws changed--our amendment?? Maybe the founders weren't all that smart after all. OMG--did I just post that statement??? I'll be tarred and feather.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 01:22 PM   #60
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because scotus stopped them. Yes, they already had in chicago and dc. Scotus put an end to that


link?????
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