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Old November 30th, 2017, 11:15 AM   #1
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If you want to raise your blood pressure

turn of the Senate, with c_span today. The tax Bill is the topic and for most of the day...and it started yesterday...the Dems "amendments" are to have the tax Bill sent back to the finance comm. Each one uses a different part of the Bill to have re-considered. Each one of these has been defeated and each time it takes 10-15 minutes to "debate" and then 30-40 minutes to vote. The entire day will soon be wasted. Oh yes, this last time the "debate" on the amendment had such topics as recognizing some home person for something.

You think there is any waste to tax dollars????
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Old November 30th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #2
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turn of the Senate, with c_span today. The tax Bill is the topic and for most of the day...and it started yesterday...the Dems "amendments" are to have the tax Bill sent back to the finance comm. Each one uses a different part of the Bill to have re-considered. Each one of these has been defeated and each time it takes 10-15 minutes to "debate" and then 30-40 minutes to vote. The entire day will soon be wasted. Oh yes, this last time the "debate" on the amendment had such topics as recognizing some home person for something.

You think there is any waste to tax dollars????
Thank you for once again demonstrating how utterly clueless and confused you are....and how meaningless and worthless your thread starts are.

There are VERY good reasons for the Democratic opposition to this horrible tax bill and the tax cuts for billionaires funded by tax increases for pretty much everybody else.

Last edited by Ahgho Boogheroff; November 30th, 2017 at 11:25 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2017, 11:29 AM   #3
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turn of the Senate, with c_span today. The tax Bill is the topic and for most of the day...and it started yesterday...the Dems "amendments" are to have the tax Bill sent back to the finance comm. Each one uses a different part of the Bill to have re-considered. Each one of these has been defeated and each time it takes 10-15 minutes to "debate" and then 30-40 minutes to vote. The entire day will soon be wasted. Oh yes, this last time the "debate" on the amendment had such topics as recognizing some home person for something.

You think there is any waste to tax dollars????
The Republicans have not allowed a single hearing on a huge tax bill. They have rushed this through and no one knows what is definitely in it. And, you worry that the Democrats are slowing down a process that has moved recklessly fast ? BRILLIANT !!!!
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Old November 30th, 2017, 11:33 AM   #4
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Couples deduct $24,000 from their income, before starting to figure taxes...doubled over what it is now. Families get double the present child tax credit. Just those sound like tax cuts not raises. oh...and they may even get a lower tax rate, like down from 15% to 12%, depending what of the 3 tax brackets they are in. .
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Old November 30th, 2017, 11:36 AM   #5
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Well, Camelot...if the Dems "don't definitively know" what is in it, then on what do they form all their objections? IF they any/or staf have not studied it, then how can they speak on it?
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Old November 30th, 2017, 12:29 PM   #6
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Well, Camelot...if the Dems "don't definitively know" what is in it, then on what do they form all their objections? IF they any/or staf have not studied it, then how can they speak on it?
They keep changing it to get the votes. Of course they know the highlights. Not a single hearing has been held. Republicans complained about the ACA legislation even though they held hearings for 9 months. This has been done in backrooms over the course of two weeks. The Dems have every right to slow down this process. Republicans donít want to give the American people any time to fully vett the legislation. This is irresponsible.
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Old November 30th, 2017, 03:10 PM   #7
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Well Camelot, you should be happy the Senate is going through the 5th time the Dem's have put their "amendment" to give the tax Bill back to the Finance comm. During these 3-4 hours of the meeting time today, one would think they could have read the proposed Bill.
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Old November 30th, 2017, 03:20 PM   #8
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Well Camelot, you should be happy the Senate is going through the 5th time the Dem's have put their "amendment" to give the tax Bill back to the Finance comm. During these 3-4 hours of the meeting time today, one would think they could have read the proposed Bill.
Not a single public hearing has been held for tax legislation that will effect a generation. That is legislative malpractice in any reasonable Americans eyes. Why are they speeding this through ? Why donít they want the American people see how great this bill is ?
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Old November 30th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #9
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On this 5th vote...even some of the Dem's voted NO.
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Old November 30th, 2017, 05:22 PM   #10
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Couples deduct $24,000 from their income, before starting to figure taxes...doubled over what it is now. Families get double the present child tax credit. Just those sound like tax cuts not raises. oh...and they may even get a lower tax rate, like down from 15% to 12%, depending what of the 3 tax brackets they are in. .
Too bad that is only what rightwingnut stooges say about the consequences of the bill. A good con job will indeed "sound like" a lot of things that it really isn't. The real economists and other analysts find that the tax bill actually reads quite differently when examined closely by the experts who really understand the language. Which is why the Cons are trying to rush the bill through without debate in the Senate and without enough time for any real examination of the details.

One good example....

The Biggest Tax Scam in History
The New York Times
Paul Krugman
NOV. 27, 2017
(excerpts)
The bill Republican leaders are trying to ram through this week without hearings, without time for even a basic analysis of its likely economic impact, is the biggest tax scam in history. Itís such a big scam that itís not even clear whoís being scammed ó middle-class taxpayers, people who care about budget deficits, or both. One thing is clear, however: One way or another, the bill would hurt most Americans. The only big winners would be the wealthy ó especially those who mainly collect income from their assets rather than working for a living ó plus tax lawyers and accountants who would have a field day exploiting the many loopholes the legislation creates.

The core of the bill is a huge redistribution of income from lower- and middle-income families to corporations and business owners. Corporate tax rates go down sharply, while ordinary families are nickel-and-dimed by a series of tax changes, no one of which is that big a deal in itself, but which add up to significant tax increases on almost two-thirds of middle-class taxpayers. Meanwhile, the bill would partially repeal Obamacare, in a way that would sharply reduce aid to lower-income families and raise the cost of insurance for many in the middle class.

You might wonder how such a thing could possibly pass the Senate. But thatís where the scamming comes in. While the underlying structure of the bill involves raising taxes on the middle class, the bill also includes a number of temporary tax breaks that would, at first, offset these tax increases. As a result, in the first few years most middle-class families would see modest tax cuts. But the operative word here is ďtemporary.Ē All of these tax breaks either dwindle over time or are scheduled to expire at some point; by 2027 the bill is, as I said, a tax increase on the middle class used to pay for tax cuts that mainly benefit the wealthy.

Why would anyone write a bill full of provisions that evaporate over time? Thereís no economic or policy logic behind it. Instead, itís all about trying to have it both ways, making a safe space for political double talk. Hereís how it works: If you point out that the bill hugely favors the wealthy at the expense of ordinary families, Republicans will point to the next few years, when the class-war nature of the plan is obscured by those temporary tax breaks ó and claim that whatever the language of the law says, those tax breaks will actually be made permanent by later Congresses. But if you point out that the bill is fiscally irresponsible, theyíll say that it ďonlyĒ raises the deficit by $1.5 trillion over the next decade and doesnít raise deficits at all after that ó because, you see, those tax breaks will expire by 2027, so the tax hikes will raise a lot of revenue. By the way, the claim that middle-class taxes will rise is crucial to passing the bill: Only bills that donít raise deficits after 10 years can bypass the filibuster and be enacted by a simple Senate majority. The point, of course, is that these claims canít both be true. Either this bill is a big tax hike on the middle class, or itís a huge budget-buster. Which is it? Nobody really knows; probably even the people who wrote this monstrosity donít know. But someone is being scammed, bigly.

(more on website)
*****

Another example....

GOP's tax reform is a 'middle-class con job'
The Hill
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