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Old January 3rd, 2018, 03:48 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
You are really wonderful, H.
Did you find that woman--that imperfect, perfect woman?? AND live happily ever after??
Sure...three times so far.
I ADORE women, it's WIVES I can't seem to get along with.

EDIT: All a marriage/LTR should be is two people who have worked out a way to live in peace and harmony with each other. HOW they do that is no one else's business. IMHO, of course.
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Last edited by Hollywood; January 3rd, 2018 at 03:51 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:27 PM   #92
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I think you and I are looking at this issue from different angles. I agree that giving up "the power" (as I like to call it) is difficult for some women, i.e. they like the sheets washed and folded a certain way--but YES--the day comes when they need help with the laundry and some of those high expectations just have to go. Mr. Clara and I live in a retirement community and we see it every day. Women hire cleaning ladies and give up cooking. Men hire yard men and give up climbing on ladders. I get it, but that's NOT what I'm talking about.

The equality I'm talking about is equal pay. Equal healthcare. Equal opportunity. Feminists want to be seen as equal intellectuals, equal partners, equal in employment and education...and yes...equal in government. Women are 51% of the population, but makeup 19% of Congress and only a quarter of state legislatures.

Sexism exists. Misogyny exists. Patriarchy exists. I'm not saying we should throw out respect or responsibility. I'm not saying we shouldn't share the burdens or that we should live as someone else lives....rich, poor, old, black or white. I'm saying we all deserve the same opportunities. Period.
The problem with feminism is the same as the problem with being Muslim. A few people stand out and set the image for everyone else. Feminist talk has pushed away some women who want to be valued for the traditional reasons, and do play an important role in society, and they pushed away men who could be on their side if they weren't so hateful towards men and blaming them for everything wrong. Their thinking often tends to be too narrow and emotionally driven, and their adoption of attention-getting vulgarity really turns me off. I think there are valid reasons for starting this thread.

Supporting feminism is a problem because of the headline getting behaviors of a few, misconceptions, narrow-mindedness, and failure to talk about the well being of children and other things contributing to the problem, like autocratic industry that exploited men as much as it exploited women. Talking about justice, principles, virtues and the welfare of children is something else. A woman with children will never be equal to a man without children. She has a lot more on her plate and we might want to acknowledge that. If the only reason for working is a paycheck, we create an ugly reality.

The ingredients of our problems are many. I don't think we want to add making enemies to that. It is sad watching the feminist on TV are who are passing through their reproductive years regretting they have not met the perfect man with whom they would want to start a family. Maybe we should have different standards and be more tolerant of our differences? There is a different conversation to have. Like all those coal miners killed in unsafe working conditions and killed because they fought for better working conditions and decent wages that their families desperately needed. Maybe we can find it in our hearts to love these less perfect men, and live with the fact that we aren't perfect either?

Last edited by Athena; January 3rd, 2018 at 04:39 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:42 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Sure...three times so far.
I ADORE women, it's WIVES I can't seem to get along with.

EDIT: All a marriage/LTR should be is two people who have worked out a way to live in peace and harmony with each other. HOW they do that is no one else's business. IMHO, of course.
The women in my family have agreed it is a bad idea to live together. The problem is not being male or female, but what we value and what we are willing to give to have that, and how good are our communication skills? Oh and self-awareness and awareness of others? I have found it difficult to spend too much time with someone who does not have self-awareness and a good sense of humor.

Last edited by Athena; January 3rd, 2018 at 04:44 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:51 PM   #94
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This is interesting. Can you give me examples?
This will cause quite a stir but


THE ROLE OF THE MAN AND WOMAN IN THE FAMILY.
********* The Lord has given very specific and unambiguous instructions (for) husbands and wives as to their respective roles in the family.
********* The classic passage that gives us God's instruction is found in Ephesians 5:22-33:
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

********* Several things are very clear:
********* 1. Wives are to submit themselves to their husbands in the same way they do unto the Lord. (V22). Verse 23, continues making it very clear that the husband is the head of the wife. This means that the husband has the leadership role in the marriage and family the same way that Christ is the Head of the church. It is not saying that the wife is inferior to the man, but the man has the responsibility to lead his wife and family. Lest this be misunderstood (as so many have) God continues and says that as a church is subject to Christ, so the wife is to be subject to their husbands. Paul then refers to Christ's giving Himself for the church and therefore the clear implication is that the man in his role as leader is to give of himself to his wife and family. This command to the wife to be submissive is in perfect harmony with her created role as the man's helper.
********* 2. Husbands are instructed to love their wives. Love means unmerited favor. This strongly addresses man's responsibility. The husband is to show favor to his wife and shoulder his responsibility whether his wife submits to him or not. His favor towards her comes from His God given responsibility and is not based on her being desiring of that love. In other words the man's responsibility is not based on circumstances, but upon God's orders to him.
********* 3. Verse 33, sums up the preceding statements saying "Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. (Ephesians 5:33)" The man is to accept and fulfill his responsibilities to his wife and she is to revere him, meaning to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience. A marriage and family which follows God's instructions will be a lasting, productive and happy one. Each partner, working in a common love and obedience to the Lord, will produce the family as God intended it to be. The same applies to a church. However, if a family or church, rejects Godís stated instructions, and deviates from God's plan, confusion will certainly follow. When a church abandons God's word, then it abandons God and prohibits God from blessing and being a part of it. Worse.....deviating from God Godís stated principles opens the door to allow Satan to come in and take over. If a church is not obeying the Lord, then it is without any question obeying the Devil and dishonoring the Lord.

The Biblical Order Of Men And Women In The Family And The Church. By Cooper P. Abrams, III
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:56 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by mayeve View Post
Really? There are that few female members here? I had no idea. Well thanks Clara I'm glad to be here too!
Yeah, there are that few of us, and Clara should get a medal for all the time she defended the fort all by herself. That can be a very hard thing to do. Let's give her a standing ovation.

I sincerely mean that, considering how many times I have been thrown out forums and had zero support from other women. I find women are way underrepresented in forums and male domination was unavoidable for lack of another female voice.
Thanks from Clara007
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:59 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Find a woman that agrees with you 100%.
Marry her and never part.
Then the two of you leave everyone else alone to live the way they want.
Do not violate U.S. Civil Rights, equal opportunity laws, etc. etc. in the process of living the way you want to.

Simple, everyone's happy.
Already done! What does this have to do with radical feminists ruining society?
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:07 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Sensible View Post
Already done! What does this have to do with radical feminists ruining society?
Then there's no problem.
That they are "ruining society" is a biased personal opinion of yours.
You're married to someone that thinks like you so how exactly is your life, your marriage being "ruined?"
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:16 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Sensible View Post
This will cause quite a stir but


THE ROLE OF THE MAN AND WOMAN IN THE FAMILY.
********* The Lord has given very specific and unambiguous instructions (for) husbands and wives as to their respective roles in the family.
********* The classic passage that gives us God's instruction is found in Ephesians 5:22-33:
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

********* Several things are very clear:
********* 1. Wives are to submit themselves to their husbands in the same way they do unto the Lord. (V22). Verse 23, continues making it very clear that the husband is the head of the wife. This means that the husband has the leadership role in the marriage and family the same way that Christ is the Head of the church. It is not saying that the wife is inferior to the man, but the man has the responsibility to lead his wife and family. Lest this be misunderstood (as so many have) God continues and says that as a church is subject to Christ, so the wife is to be subject to their husbands. Paul then refers to Christ's giving Himself for the church and therefore the clear implication is that the man in his role as leader is to give of himself to his wife and family. This command to the wife to be submissive is in perfect harmony with her created role as the man's helper.
********* 2. Husbands are instructed to love their wives. Love means unmerited favor. This strongly addresses man's responsibility. The husband is to show favor to his wife and shoulder his responsibility whether his wife submits to him or not. His favor towards her comes from His God given responsibility and is not based on her being desiring of that love. In other words the man's responsibility is not based on circumstances, but upon God's orders to him.
********* 3. Verse 33, sums up the preceding statements saying "Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. (Ephesians 5:33)" The man is to accept and fulfill his responsibilities to his wife and she is to revere him, meaning to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience. A marriage and family which follows God's instructions will be a lasting, productive and happy one. Each partner, working in a common love and obedience to the Lord, will produce the family as God intended it to be. The same applies to a church. However, if a family or church, rejects Godís stated instructions, and deviates from God's plan, confusion will certainly follow. When a church abandons God's word, then it abandons God and prohibits God from blessing and being a part of it. Worse.....deviating from God Godís stated principles opens the door to allow Satan to come in and take over. If a church is not obeying the Lord, then it is without any question obeying the Devil and dishonoring the Lord.

The Biblical Order Of Men And Women In The Family And The Church. By Cooper P. Abrams, III
Ridiculous religious nonsense. The U.S. is not a theocracy. If a couple chooses of their own free will to live that way together then that is their business.
BUT, U.S. secular law involving civil rights, property rights, employment, etc. etc. must supersede and take precedence over any of that "God says" nonsense.
Hell, EVERY religion's Holy Book claims to be the "word of God."
Thanks from catus felis and Athena
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:21 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensible View Post
This will cause quite a stir but


THE ROLE OF THE MAN AND WOMAN IN THE FAMILY.
********* The Lord has given very specific and unambiguous instructions (for) husbands and wives as to their respective roles in the family.
********* The classic passage that gives us God's instruction is found in Ephesians 5:22-33:
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

********* Several things are very clear:
********* 1. Wives are to submit themselves to their husbands in the same way they do unto the Lord. (V22). Verse 23, continues making it very clear that the husband is the head of the wife. This means that the husband has the leadership role in the marriage and family the same way that Christ is the Head of the church. It is not saying that the wife is inferior to the man, but the man has the responsibility to lead his wife and family. Lest this be misunderstood (as so many have) God continues and says that as a church is subject to Christ, so the wife is to be subject to their husbands. Paul then refers to Christ's giving Himself for the church and therefore the clear implication is that the man in his role as leader is to give of himself to his wife and family. This command to the wife to be submissive is in perfect harmony with her created role as the man's helper.
********* 2. Husbands are instructed to love their wives. Love means unmerited favor. This strongly addresses man's responsibility. The husband is to show favor to his wife and shoulder his responsibility whether his wife submits to him or not. His favor towards her comes from His God given responsibility and is not based on her being desiring of that love. In other words the man's responsibility is not based on circumstances, but upon God's orders to him.
********* 3. Verse 33, sums up the preceding statements saying "Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. (Ephesians 5:33)" The man is to accept and fulfill his responsibilities to his wife and she is to revere him, meaning to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience. A marriage and family which follows God's instructions will be a lasting, productive and happy one. Each partner, working in a common love and obedience to the Lord, will produce the family as God intended it to be. The same applies to a church. However, if a family or church, rejects Godís stated instructions, and deviates from God's plan, confusion will certainly follow. When a church abandons God's word, then it abandons God and prohibits God from blessing and being a part of it. Worse.....deviating from God Godís stated principles opens the door to allow Satan to come in and take over. If a church is not obeying the Lord, then it is without any question obeying the Devil and dishonoring the Lord.

The Biblical Order Of Men And Women In The Family And The Church. By Cooper P. Abrams, III
Do I want to stir this pot?
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:28 PM   #100
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Oh, why not?
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