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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:30 PM   #101
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Do I want to stir this pot?
Youíll need a gigantic spoon. I wasnít quite expecting that answer and donít want to go near it. Yuck.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:32 PM   #102
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The problem with feminism is the same as the problem with being Muslim. A few people stand out and set the image for everyone else. Feminist talk has pushed away some women who want to be valued for the traditional reasons, and do play an important role in society, and they pushed away men who could be on their side if they weren't so hateful towards men and blaming them for everything wrong. Their thinking often tends to be too narrow and emotionally driven, and their adoption of attention-getting vulgarity really turns me off. I think there are valid reasons for starting this thread.

Supporting feminism is a problem because of the headline getting behaviors of a few, misconceptions, narrow-mindedness, and failure to talk about the well being of children and other things contributing to the problem, like autocratic industry that exploited men as much as it exploited women. Talking about justice, principles, virtues and the welfare of children is something else. A woman with children will never be equal to a man without children. She has a lot more on her plate and we might want to acknowledge that. If the only reason for working is a paycheck, we create an ugly reality.

The ingredients of our problems are many. I don't think we want to add making enemies to that. It is sad watching the feminist on TV are who are passing through their reproductive years regretting they have not met the perfect man with whom they would want to start a family. Maybe we should have different standards and be more tolerant of our differences? There is a different conversation to have. Like all those coal miners killed in unsafe working conditions and killed because they fought for better working conditions and decent wages that their families desperately needed. Maybe we can find it in our hearts to love these less perfect men, and live with the fact that we aren't perfect either?


Okay. I agree that there are some pretty radical women out there and I imagine they ARE the problem, but MOST women just want an equal playing field. Women like me want it all--the house with the picket fence, the happy-hardworking husband, the 2 kids, the dog AND the career. During my tenure as a teacher I was paid just like everyone else. Our pay scale was the same for all, based on education and experience.
I do not agree that feminism--the fight for equality--is a problem. A challenge? YES. Difficult? Absolutely. A problem? NOPE and if it is.....tough luck. This is a battle that needs to be fought. I've been on the receiving end of harassment and discrimination. I won't tolerate that....not for me....not for anyone...man, woman or child.
We are all imperfect and I can love imperfection deeply. That's not the issue.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:44 PM   #103
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Ridiculous religious nonsense. The U.S. is not a theocracy. If a couple chooses of their own free will to live that way together then that is their business.
BUT, U.S. secular law involving civil rights, property rights, employment, etc. etc. must supersede and take precedence over any of that "God says" nonsense.
Hell, EVERY religion's Holy Book claims to be the "word of God."
Well, not all spiritual belief systems claim we can know the word of God. I think some would believe it is pretty arrogant to believe we can know the word of a god, since the Oracle in Delphi quit working. However, some do rely on things like reading tea leafs or fortune telling cards or I Ching, but that is not equal to "hearing the word of God".

However, we can come to know logos, reason, the controlling force of the universe, made manifest in speech. This universal force and power of the word, cannot be changed with our prayers, sacrifices of animals, or burning of candles. It is not a god of miracles, nor does this force have favorite people. The sun shines on everyone the same and we are all equal under the sun.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:07 PM   #104
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This will cause quite a stir but


THE ROLE OF THE MAN AND WOMAN IN THE FAMILY.
********* The Lord has given very specific and unambiguous instructions (for) husbands and wives as to their respective roles in the family.
********* The classic passage that gives us God's instruction is found in Ephesians 5:22-33:
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

********* Several things are very clear:
********* 1. Wives are to submit themselves to their husbands in the same way they do unto the Lord. (V22). Verse 23, continues making it very clear that the husband is the head of the wife. This means that the husband has the leadership role in the marriage and family the same way that Christ is the Head of the church. It is not saying that the wife is inferior to the man, but the man has the responsibility to lead his wife and family. Lest this be misunderstood (as so many have) God continues and says that as a church is subject to Christ, so the wife is to be subject to their husbands. Paul then refers to Christ's giving Himself for the church and therefore the clear implication is that the man in his role as leader is to give of himself to his wife and family. This command to the wife to be submissive is in perfect harmony with her created role as the man's helper.
********* 2. Husbands are instructed to love their wives. Love means unmerited favor. This strongly addresses man's responsibility. The husband is to show favor to his wife and shoulder his responsibility whether his wife submits to him or not. His favor towards her comes from His God given responsibility and is not based on her being desiring of that love. In other words the man's responsibility is not based on circumstances, but upon God's orders to him.
********* 3. Verse 33, sums up the preceding statements saying "Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. (Ephesians 5:33)" The man is to accept and fulfill his responsibilities to his wife and she is to revere him, meaning to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience. A marriage and family which follows God's instructions will be a lasting, productive and happy one. Each partner, working in a common love and obedience to the Lord, will produce the family as God intended it to be. The same applies to a church. However, if a family or church, rejects Godís stated instructions, and deviates from God's plan, confusion will certainly follow. When a church abandons God's word, then it abandons God and prohibits God from blessing and being a part of it. Worse.....deviating from God Godís stated principles opens the door to allow Satan to come in and take over. If a church is not obeying the Lord, then it is without any question obeying the Devil and dishonoring the Lord.

The Biblical Order Of Men And Women In The Family And The Church. By Cooper P. Abrams, III
Which is yet another reason why many thinking people consider taking the bible literally is wrong.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:17 PM   #105
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Okay. I agree that there are some pretty radical women out there and I imagine they ARE the problem, but MOST women just want an equal playing field. Women like me want it all--the house with the picket fence, the happy-hardworking husband, the 2 kids, the dog AND the career. During my tenure as a teacher I was paid just like everyone else. Our pay scale was the same for all, based on education and experience.
I do not agree that feminism--the fight for equality--is a problem. A challenge? YES. Difficult? Absolutely. A problem? NOPE and if it is.....tough luck. This is a battle that needs to be fought. I've been on the receiving end of harassment and discrimination. I won't tolerate that....not for me....not for anyone...man, woman or child.
We are all imperfect and I can love imperfection deeply. That's not the issue.
Are you as passionate about racism? What is the difference between being a feminist or opposing racism? How about being a union leader, is that somehow a different fight for justice?

Perhaps religions are so powerful because of their unity? Religion attempts to define good and evil and get everyone acting in agreement, rather than fragmenting our problems and pitting us against each other.

I think I should shut down my computer because my brain is shutting down. You know when the bar on your phone lets you know it is time to recharge it? I feel half numb as I go through the library in my head looking for the concepts I want, and the part of me doing this is pleading for a rest period and time to recharge.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:46 PM   #106
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Youíll need a gigantic spoon. I wasnít quite expecting that answer and donít want to go near it. Yuck.
If I were not so tired I would thank Sensible for all the good ideas he posted, but I don't have the energy to stir with that gigantic spoon. I am looking forward to returning after I have recharged.

Perhaps my name should be Contrary? You all are giving Sensible a bad time, so I am compelled to do the contrary. But I also bristle when someone uses a God of Abraham holy book as the "voice of authority". That doesn't mean there is no good to what the books say. But as some have mentioned, holy books pretty much agree, except they want to "be special" and known as the only ones to have God's truth while they dis the others.

I think searching for God's truth, means reading all that is said of God, and knowing a lot about science and human nature. Racism, feminism, holy wars, really? I don't think those divisions and diversions, are the path to truth?

Like what if we are in the resurrection and the resurrection is manifested by archeologist, geologist and related sciences? What if Chardin is right about God being asleep in rocks and minerals, waking in plants and animals and to know self in man? Do we have time for all this quibbling if what we should be doing is learning as much as we can about God's manifestation and human history around the world?

I am so tired it is like being drunk. I better go stop.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:01 PM   #107
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Yeah, there are that few of us, and Clara should get a medal for all the time she defended the fort all by herself. That can be a very hard thing to do. Let's give her a standing ovation.

I sincerely mean that, considering how many times I have been thrown out forums and had zero support from other women. I find women are way underrepresented in forums and male domination was unavoidable for lack of another female voice.


I have never understood some womens need for this mythical solidarity. This us against them mentality.

IMO it is dividing behavior and mentality like this that is causing serious issues in our society.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 03:19 AM   #108
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Are you as passionate about racism? What is the difference between being a feminist or opposing racism? How about being a union leader, is that somehow a different fight for justice?

Perhaps religions are so powerful because of their unity? Religion attempts to define good and evil and get everyone acting in agreement, rather than fragmenting our problems and pitting us against each other.

I think I should shut down my computer because my brain is shutting down. You know when the bar on your phone lets you know it is time to recharge it? I feel half numb as I go through the library in my head looking for the concepts I want, and the part of me doing this is pleading for a rest period and time to recharge.


Yes, I'm afraid I am JUST as passionate about racism....and I WAS a union leader so YEP--you betcha. I'm pretty much a bleeding heart. LOL
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Old January 4th, 2018, 06:51 AM   #109
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I have never understood some womens need for this mythical solidarity. This us against them mentality.

IMO it is dividing behavior and mentality like this that is causing serious issues in our society.
I didn't read it like that at all. I interrupted it as: There aren't very many women on this board. Glad to see you here.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Certainly nothing to get butthurt over.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 07:09 AM   #110
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Here, here, but you have gone out of your way to earn mine right?
ROTFLMAO! What on earth would I want with your respect?
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