Originally Posted by catus felis

I think that you and I have very different definitions of respect.

re·spect
rəˈspekt/
noun
noun: respect

1.
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

Nothing sensible has ever posted has caused me to feel any admiration for him whatsoever.

As far as 'what good does it do'? My husbands brother is a great deal like sensible when it comes to his attitude towards women. It took him a few years to learn that his 'tea glass rattling', 'finger snapping', telling me that I 'need to learn to mind' bullshit wasn't going to work with me. Now he avoids me like the plague.

Originally Posted by RNG

I hope you put that one in the win column.

Originally Posted by Athena

Hum, I almost forgot to be respectful. I really don't think you want to live in a female body and if you did, I don't think you would make that argument.

One more thing, I remember when our economy was built on Aristotle's notion that a man should have an ox, a wife, and slave and women were prevented from attending some colleges or pursuing some careers, and were expected to do women's work for low or no pay, and if a man did do the same work, he was paid a higher wage.

My father was opposed to me studying anything in college besides home economics and he sure as blazes did not give me the mentoring he gave his son. It was obvious to him a man had a much better chance of earning a good wage, and a woman's place was in the home. Let me clarify I am resentful of that past, and I do not mean to blame you or attack you for that past, as I pray people of color will stop being angry with me just because I am white and their history was very unjust.

At the same time, I also believe that gender division of roles is best for our liberty, and I hope the discussion can explore that possibility.

The ideal for the women of my generation was to have our families and be devoted wives and mothers, and when our children were old enough to leave alone, we were to return to college, get our careers and help pay for the children's college educations. Unfortunately, I didn't marry as well as I thought I had. When we begin our families with the wrong person, there are no good choices, only exchanging one set of problems for another.

Originally Posted by Athena

I think you are making a good point, but I see things a little differently, and that makes this a very, very interesting discussion! I think the agenda is to reduce everyone to powerlessness, and that it has nothing to do with gender. However, we are living in a pressure cooker right now, and a lot of people are blowing off steam.

I should say your objection to making males as females hits a raw nerve because, from my perspective, we have been demanding women be as males and have made being feminine taboo.

What do you see as desirable male traits and desirable female traits? And how should they relate to one another?

Originally Posted by Sensible

I believe in the Biblical roles for Male, and Female, the problem is it is distorted into what it is not by feminists, to make it something it is not!

Originally Posted by Athena

Many women have a huge problem letting their husband share the household responsibilities, especially older women. I did attempt to change this and decided maybe I do not want to deal with the women's resistance to change? Although as we age we can not do what we did when we are young, and we develop health issues that slow us down or force us to be dependent on others. It is because I do workshops for people living with chronic conditions and also my past education/experience working with older people, that I see the huge problem of staying in gender our roles, and not embracing a crossover and sharing of responsibilities. Gender separation is often imposed more by females than by males. Maitaining social order is a task women tend to accept naturally. Today many women want to change that order, but they may not want to go about this as though the only resistance to change is male.

Also exactly what is equality? I can not experience life as a man, nor as a person of color, nor as a wealthy person, nor as my grandmother experienced life a hundred years ago. When our life experience is unavoidably different, how can we experience equality?

Originally Posted by mayeve

This was kind of my point here. Men calling women whores is unacceptable. Women calling women whores should be even more unacceptable. Another group I'm part of consists of several women (all self professed feminists) who take great joy in running amok calling Melania Trump a whore. I think a big chunk of feminism is also about respecting and not degrading each other. We can disagree or even not like one another without calling each other "fat," or "ugly", or "whores". I mean, don't we already go through enough?

Men in Hollywood and men in politics have been called out on for saying degrading things about women. Why aren't the women held accountable for the same exact behavior?

Originally Posted by Clara007

Let me point something out here, ladies: Cat, Athena and May. THIS, my ladies, is a BANNER day--ask anyone on DTT. NEVER in the two years I've been posting have FOUR women had a discussion on this site. NEVER.

We may not agree on everything, but I urge all of you to keep the discussions going--to support each other--to show respect---to stand firm.

I'm so glad you are all here.

Originally Posted by Sensible

I believe in the Biblical roles for Male, and Female, the problem is it is distorted into what it is not by feminists, to make it something it is not!

Originally Posted by Hollywood

Find a woman that agrees with you 100%.
Marry her and never part.
Then the two of you leave everyone else alone to live the way they want.
Do not violate U.S. Civil Rights, equal opportunity laws, etc. etc. in the process of living the way you want to.

Simple, everyone's happy.