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Old January 9th, 2018, 06:23 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Internet shouting.

Try to control yourself. You haven't updated your knowledge. Your points are wrong, and they become wronger everyday.
He called out your bullshit, 100 year old graph, and proved his point with his.
And for some reason you think you saying "you are wronger" somehow changes the fact your argument was destroyed.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 06:23 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
I love your chart, 1880 to 2019 (LAST TIME I LOOKED we were in 201.

now when that is said, the trend for the last 20 years in your graph (Because apparently did not read what I said THE LAST 20 YEARS THERE HAS BEEN NO WARMING OR COOLING.. the trend is flat

Lets NARROW that to the period of time I stated.

If you look the last 20 years of your GRAPH 1997-2017 THE TREND IS FLAT EVEN



Has there been warming since 1880. WHY YES.. beause in 1880 was in the height of the LITTLE ICE AGE.. the DALON MINIMUM ended and we began entering the MODERN MAXIMUM solar period.
It is so easy to destroy the idiocy of the MMGW crowd.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 06:25 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
So, where can the claim be found in which, allegedly, the magnitude of the margin of error of the calculated global temperature anomaly is more than twice the magnitude of said calculated global temperature anomaly?

I have posted the link a few times in a few threads. Sorry you are ignorant of just how inaccurate your data actually is.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 06:27 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
No it's not.

Math isn't your strong suit, is it? He said "last 20 years".
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Old January 9th, 2018, 08:36 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Libertarian Guy View Post
CO2 levels have been as much as 5X higher than today. Why wasn't it much, much hotter then than today?
Don't you read the posts in your own thread?

Post #32, this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Know? What do you mean we don't know?

Tell me, who do you think has a bigger "agenda," climatologists or global fossil fuel producing corporations.

Study up on methane, then let's talk. It's true. We don't understand at what point methane clathrates break down releasing free methane, but we do know that such a release produces positive feedback by causing warming which releases more methane.

Here's an overview:
Earth's worst-ever mass extinction of life holds 'apocalyptic' warning about climate change, say scientists
Some 250 million years ago, runaway global warming saw the planet's average temperature hit 29 degrees Celsius, compared to about 15C today

Researchers studying the largest-ever mass extinction in Earth’s history claim to have found evidence that it was caused by runaway global warming – and that the “apocalyptic” events of 250 million years ago could happen again.

About 90 per cent of all the living things on the planet were wiped out in the Permian mass extinction – described in a 2005 book called When Life Nearly Died – for reasons that have been long debated by scientists....

Now a team of researchers from Canada, Italy, Germany and the US say they have discovered what happened and that their findings have “an important lesson for humanity” in how we deal with current global warming....

“Based on measurements of gases trapped in [the mineral] calcite, the release of methane … is deemed the ultimate source and cause for the dramatic life-changing global warming … observed at the end Permian....

The paper said the average global temperature would have reached “well above 29C”. Today’s average is about 15C.

“The emission of carbon dioxide from volcanic deposits may have started the world onto the road of mass extinction, but it was the release of methane from shelf sediments and permafrost hydrates that was the ultimate cause for the catastrophic biotic event at the end Permian,” the researchers added.
More: Earth's worst-ever mass extinction of life holds 'apocalyptic' warning about climate change, say scientists | The Independent

The ocean floors and the permafrost in Siberia, Alaska, and Canada currently are releasing methane, and at an increasing rate.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 08:40 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Libertarian Guy View Post
Math isn't your strong suit, is it? He said "last 20 years".
Do you see the last 20 years on that graph?

I hope so.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 08:41 AM   #77
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Not sure how your post about something happening 250 million years ago has anything to do with something that happened about 450 million years ago.
Quote:
Geologists refer to ancient ice-cap formations and ice-ages as "glaciations." One such glaciation that occurred during the Late Ordovician era, some 444 million years ago has captured the attention of climate scientists and skeptics alike. To get some perspective on timing, that's just over 200 million years before dinosaurs began to roam the Earth.

Unlike other glaciations in the last 500 million years, this one was exceptionally brief (lasting perhaps only a million years or so) but the main reason for generating so much interest recently is because it took place when CO2 levels were apparently sky-high. As Ian Plimer notes in his book, "Heaven and Earth", pp165:

"The proof that CO2 does not drive climate is shown by previous glaciations...If the popular catastrophist view is accepted, then there should have been a runaway greenhouse when CO2 was more than 4000 ppmv. Instead there was glaciation. Clearly a high atmospheric CO2 does not drive global warming and there is no correlation between global temperature and atmospheric CO2."

On the surface, Plimer does seem to have a point: if ice-caps managed to exist back then in an ultra-high CO2 environment, why are the vast majority of climate scientists worrying so much about keeping CO2 levels piddlingly low?
https://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-higher-in-past.htm
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:07 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
No we have not.




CO2 spikes where greater 135,000 years ago and 320,000 years ago

spikes of similar amplitude occurred 400,000 years ago and 245,000 years ago.
Your graphs exclude the recent unprecedentedly rapid CO2 spike, unprecedented in the last 400,000 years. Here's one that includes the spike.

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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:19 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Libertarian Guy View Post
Not sure how your post about something happening 250 million years ago has anything to do with something that happened about 450 million years ago.


https://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-higher-in-past.htm
Thanks. Skeptical Science is a good website, putting sometimes hard to understand science into words more easily understood by lay people.

The article is headed:
The Ordovician glaciation was a brief excursion to coldness during an otherwise warm era, due to a coincidence of conditions. It is completely consistent with climate science.
The climate myth countered by the article:
CO2 was higher in the past
"The killer proof that CO2 does not drive climate is to be found during the Ordovician- Silurian and the Jurassic-Cretaceous periods when CO2 levels were greater than 4000 ppmv (parts per million by volume) and about 2000 ppmv respectively. If the IPCC theory is correct there should have been runaway greenhouse induced global warming during these periods but instead there was glaciation."
On the modeled CO2 levels:
Plimer's stated value of 4000 ppmv or greater is taken from Robert Berner's GEOCARB, a well-known geochemical model of ancient CO2. As the Ordovician was so long ago, there are huge uncertainties for that time period (according to the model, CO2 was between an incredible 2400 and 9000 ppmv.) Crucially, GEOCARB has a 10 million year timestep, leading Berner to explicitly advise against using his model to estimate Late Ordovician CO2 levels due its inability to account for short-term CO2 fluctuations. He noted that "exact values of CO2... should not be taken literally.
And the sun?
Another important factor is the sun. During the Ordovician, it would have been several percent dimmer according to established nuclear models of main sequence stars. Surprisingly, this raises the CO2 threshold for glaciation to a staggering 3000 ppmv or so. This also explains (along with the logarithmic forcing effect of CO2) why a runaway greenhouse didn't occur: with a dimmer sun, high CO2 is necessary to stop the Earth freezing over.
To summarize:
In summary, we know CO2 was probably very high coming into the Late Ordovician period, however the subsequent dip in CO2 was brief enough not to register in the GEOCARB model, yet low enough (with the help of a dimmer sun) to trigger permanent ice-formation. Effectively it was a brief excursion to coldness during an otherwise warm era, due to a coincidence of conditions.

When looking at events such as these from the deep geological past, it is vital to keep in mind that there are many uncertainties, and generally speaking, the further back we look, the more there are. As our paleo techniques improve and other discoveries emerge this story will no doubt be refined. Also, although CO2 is a key factor in controlling the climate, it would be a mistake to think it's the only factor; ignore the other elements and you'll most likely get the story wrong.
Which you have done by not thoroughly reading articles that you link, articles that do not support your denialist POV.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:55 AM   #80
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Nothing about much higher temps during that period. Most likely because they don’t have a clue what they were.
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