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Old January 13th, 2018, 04:44 PM   #301
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OK, if she chooses to have the kid and the guy wants her to abort, she should give up any right to ask him to pay for it, if HE SO CHOOSES.

That evens the playing field.
Good point
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Old January 13th, 2018, 04:52 PM   #302
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Checks & balances

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Originally Posted by Libertarian Guy View Post
OK, if she chooses to have the kid and the guy wants her to abort, she should give up any right to ask him to pay for it, if HE SO CHOOSES.

That evens the playing field.
No, even from a purely utilitarian POV, there are costs involved in raising a child. Health, food, education, clothing, shelter, transportation. Someone will pay those costs if the biological father doesn't - either the mother or society @ large. If the mother doesn't have any salable skills, the state will PU the costs - or a fair portion of them.

So no - no free ride. If the guy wants his fling, & opts to ignore the possibility of children - he gets to pay something reasonable for the child's upbringing & upkeep (assuming it's needed - if not, he's off the hook). The mother can give up any claim on her part from the father for her maintenance - although I don't understand why she would want to do that. What she cannot in good conscience do - is sign away her child's maintenance & support.

That's a perfectly defensible POV - everyone pays their way, as much as they can. (& in most states that fill in on child support, the mother signs away her rights to recovery from the father, the state provides child support, & pursues the father for the expenditures made to child support.)

We wouldn't want the fathers running the moral hazard of populating the World without paying the price of admission, would we?
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Old January 13th, 2018, 04:56 PM   #303
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OK, if she chooses to have the kid and the guy wants her to abort, she should give up any right to ask him to pay for it, if HE SO CHOOSES.

That evens the playing field.
That's just stupid.
It's all about Personal responsibility, he had the chance to say no, he had the chance to pull out, he chose to go with it.
That's the last decision he gets to make on his own.
His body is out of the equation at that point.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 04:58 PM   #304
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The blatant hypocrisy of you bamboozled anti-sex/abortion-cultists is so obvious.

You are Pro-Death Penalty, Pro-War, Pro-Drone Assasination, Pro-Torture, Pro-Unlimited Access to Guns.....and, at the same time, you oppose (and consistently support politicians who vote against) social programs designed to support struggling families like food aid, free school lunches and cash payments to the nation’s many deeply impoverished families.....you are Anti-Neonatal Care, Anti-Day Care, Anti-Head Start, Anti-School Lunch Programs, Anti-Food Stamps, Anti-Welfare, and pretty much Anti-Everything That Could Help a Child After It Is Born......and you flaming hypocrites still have the self-delusional gall to call yourself "Pro-Life."

You're not pro-life! You are anti-woman! Simple as that. Anti-woman. A 2013 ABC News poll found just 23% of Republicans want more women elected to office, despite the U.S.’ already scant female representation in elected positions. More recently, a 2015 survey concluded participants who agreed with sexist statements about women were much more likely to hold anti-abortion views. History, and extensive studies, have shown that making abortion illegal doesn’t get rid of abortion; it only makes the procedure more dangerous and unregulated, which causes more women to die from complications. According to the World Health Organization, “illegal abortion is usually unsafe abortion.” Anyone who would call themselves “pro-life,” while simultaneously trying to outlaw abortions, making them more deadly, is a hypocrite.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 05:59 PM   #305
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That's just stupid.
Men can avoid responsibility for pregnancy, by not having sex with women.
When they have sex, that is where their ability to decide ends.


So tell me, you people who are so concerned with preserving human life, are you writing your congressman, and the president and urging them to open the borders to refugees, from Iraq, Syria, Ethiopia, etc

Because you're sincere, this isn't just about you hating on women..
Hahahahah

Would that be a strawman or a red herring?
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Old January 13th, 2018, 06:02 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
That's just stupid.
Men can avoid responsibility for pregnancy, by not having sex with women.
When they have sex, that is where their ability to decide ends.


So tell me, you people who are so concerned with preserving human life, are you writing your congressman, and the president and urging them to open the borders to refugees, from Iraq, Syria, Ethiopia, etc

Because you're sincere, this isn't just about you hating on women..
And Kekistan! Kekistani refugees!
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Old January 13th, 2018, 06:11 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
That's just stupid.
It's all about Personal responsibility, he had the chance to say no, he had the chance to pull out, he chose to go with it.
That's the last decision he gets to make on his own.
His body is out of the equation at that point.
She had a chance to say no. She had a chance to get him to pull out.

Do you really want equality or not?

Why does she get to unilaterally make a decision for him that affects him for life?
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Old January 13th, 2018, 09:16 PM   #308
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She had a chance to say no. She had a chance to get him to pull out.

Do you really want equality or not?

Why does she get to unilaterally make a decision for him that affects him for life?
When it's her body, it's her choice, when it's his body, it's his choice.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 09:42 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Libertarian Guy View Post
She had a chance to say no. She had a chance to get him to pull out.

Do you really want equality or not?

Why does she get to unilaterally make a decision for him that affects him for life?
Leftists always have been and always will be in favor of slavery and indentured servitude. Collectivists do not support liberty. Try till you are blue in the face you will get no place when it comes to issues about personal liberty. They claim to be "pro choice" but only if it is the choice that they have pre approved of.


So tolerant
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Old January 13th, 2018, 10:55 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Libertarian Guy View Post
Why does she get to unilaterally make a decision for him that affects him for life?
Biology.

When someone finds a way for a man to get pregnant then he can make those decisions
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