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Old January 20th, 2018, 06:08 PM   #1
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If Haiti is not a shithole, please detail why?



Is this a vacation and humanitarian utopia? or a shithole
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Last edited by imaginethat; January 20th, 2018 at 09:11 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2018, 07:29 PM   #2
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Some history of the US & Haiti

It can't be a shithole, we occupied & ran the place outright for 19 years, plus we've provided support, refuge, flown out deposed dictators, helped with elections, provided disaster relief, & so on for longer than that. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ation_of_Haiti

"For the 1994–1995 United States intervention, see Operation Uphold Democracy.

"The United States occupation of Haiti began on July 28, 1915, when 330 US Marines landed at Port-au-Prince, Haiti, on the authority of US President Woodrow Wilson. The first invasion forces had already disembarked from USS Montana on January 27, 1914.[2] The July intervention took place following the murder of dictator President Vilbrun Guillaume Sam by insurgents angered by his political executions of elite opposition.

"The occupation ended on August 1, 1934, after President Franklin D. Roosevelt reaffirmed an August 1933 disengagement agreement. The last contingent of US Marines departed on August 15, 1934, after a formal transfer of authority to the Garde d'Haïti."

...

(More detail @ the URL)

"In an effort to reduce German influence, the U.S. State Department in 1910-11 backed a consortium of American investors, headed by the National City Bank of New York, to acquire control of the Banque Nationale d'Haïti. This was the country's sole commercial bank and served as the Haitian government's treasury.[6]

"In December 1914, the U.S. military seized the Haitian government's gold reserve, urged on by the National City Bank and the National Bank of Haiti (which was already under foreign direction). The U.S. took the gold to National City Bank's New York City vault.[7]"

(My emphasis - & so on)
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Old January 20th, 2018, 07:32 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
It can't be a shithole, we occupied & ran the place outright for 19 years, plus we've provided support, refuge, flown out deposed dictators, helped with elections, provided disaster relief, & so on for longer than that. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ation_of_Haiti

"For the 1994–1995 United States intervention, see Operation Uphold Democracy.

"The United States occupation of Haiti began on July 28, 1915, when 330 US Marines landed at Port-au-Prince, Haiti, on the authority of US President Woodrow Wilson. The first invasion forces had already disembarked from USS Montana on January 27, 1914.[2] The July intervention took place following the murder of dictator President Vilbrun Guillaume Sam by insurgents angered by his political executions of elite opposition.

"The occupation ended on August 1, 1934, after President Franklin D. Roosevelt reaffirmed an August 1933 disengagement agreement. The last contingent of US Marines departed on August 15, 1934, after a formal transfer of authority to the Garde d'Haïti."

...

(More detail @ the URL)

"In an effort to reduce German influence, the U.S. State Department in 1910-11 backed a consortium of American investors, headed by the National City Bank of New York, to acquire control of the Banque Nationale d'Haïti. This was the country's sole commercial bank and served as the Haitian government's treasury.[6]

"In December 1914, the U.S. military seized the Haitian government's gold reserve, urged on by the National City Bank and the National Bank of Haiti (which was already under foreign direction). The U.S. took the gold to National City Bank's New York City vault.[7]"

(My emphasis - & so on)
If it was so great, then why did we do all of the above? Now, what is going to happen is one of the Marxists will come on and say it was our imperialistic colonization that has caused Haiti to be in the shape it is now. In which case, I would have to reply to them, and what shape is that?
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Old January 20th, 2018, 08:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
If it was so great, then why did we do all of the above? Now, what is going to happen is one of the Marxists will come on and say it was our imperialistic colonization that has caused Haiti to be in the shape it is now. In which case, I would have to reply to them, and what shape is that?
Are there still Marxists in the World? I thought they all went away when the late USSR went belly up.

As for US history with Haiti - yah, there's been a lot of it. We dithered on recognizing the first black government there - didn't want slaves in the US South to get the wrong idea - which probably didn't help Haiti any. & US banks extended credit & loans to Haiti because they saw a chance to make a profit. & we declared the Monroe Doctrine - so it was hard for other countries to get a foot in the door.
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Old January 20th, 2018, 09:35 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Herculese View Post


Is this a vacation and humanitarian utopia? or a shithole
You're kidding, right? In the last 41 years:
1976

6 January: 8.6 Earthquake at Port-au-Prince.

20 May: Floods in the Cayes-Jacmel region. 20 people lost presumed dead, considerable property damage.

1980

5 August: Hurricane Allen, at more than 270 km/h, struck the south coast, especially the Cayes-Jacmel region, causing approximately 200 deaths.

1984

10 June: floods at Port-de-Paix.

1986

1 June: Floods in the Cayes-Jacmel region. 20,000 hectares of land were flooded and several thousand homes damaged.

23 October: flooding at Ile de la Gonâve. 31 killed, 906 homeless, more than 380 houses destroyed or damaged.

1988

11 September: Hurricane Gilbert devastated the south coast, particularly the Anse-à-Veau, Camp-Perrin, Cavaillon, Cayes, Île à Vache, Jacmel, Jérémie, Kenscoff and Port-Salut regions.

1989

23 February: flooding in Île de la Gonâve. 4,945 familles affected, 1,527 houses destroyed and 1640 damaged.

1994

12 and 13 November: Hurricane Gordon crossed Sud-Est département and the southern peninsula, causing flooding and approximately 2,000 deaths and disappearances.

1998

23 September: Hurricane Georges devastated the Sud-Est and Nord-Ouest départements, causing 147 deaths, 34 serious injuries, 40 disappearances, and 167,500 displaced.

2002

24–27 May: Flooding on the southern peninsula. The town of Camp Perrin and the settlements of L'Asile and Anse-à-Veau were worst affected by the tropical storms. 31 dead, 14 disappeared and more than 7,000 displaced in the dans le Sud département.

2004

23–24 May: Torrential rains which pounded the south-east of Haiti during the night caused 1,232 deaths, 1,443 disappearances and 31,130 displaced persons.

10 September: Hurricane Ivan struck the southern peninsula and west coast, causing serious damage in several areas due to flooding.

18–19 September: Hurricane Jeanne crossed the western section of Haiti and the Artibonite, causing flooding which killed 1,870. In addition: 2,620 injured, 846 disappeared and 300,000 displaced. With more than 3,000 dead, Gonaïves was the most seriously affected city.

2005

6 and 7 July: Hurricane Dennis touched the south-east coast of Haiti, causing flooding in several towns in Sud (Bainet, Grand-Goâve, Les Cayes...) and leaving more than 500 homeless.

4 October: Floods in several parts of the country, including Pétion-Ville and Grand-Goâve in Ouest département, where the high water caused considerable loss of property. The government did not make a final accounting of this catastrophe.

17–18 October: Hurricane Wilma struck the west and south of Haiti.

23 October: Tropical Storm Alpha crossed the south peninsula, affecting the départements of Grand'Anse and Nippes.

25 October: Flooding caused by torrential rain hit many parts of the Nord-Ouest département, particularly the settlements of Port-de-Paix, Bassin-Bleu, Anse-à-Foleur and Saint-Louis du Nord.

2006

22 and 23 November: heavy rain caused flooding in Grand'Anse, Nippes and Nord-Ouest départements, causing damage to roadways including the collapse of a bridge across Ravine Sable at Trou-Bonbon.

2007

17 March: floods caused by rain and storms hit a large part of Haiti for over a week.

8–9 May: torrential rain, causing considerable damage in several regions of the country, in particular in the Nord, Nord-Est and Sud départements. The town of Ouanaminthe was particularly hard hit and the bridge between Ouanaminthe and Dajabón which links Haiti to the Dominican Republic was severely damaged.

2008

16 August: Tropical Storm Fay crossed the entire country.

26 August: Hurricane Gustav crosses the south peninsula, including the Sud and Grand'Anse départements, causing approximately 77 deaths and 8 disappearances, together with serious destruction of property. 15,000 families were affected by the storm, which destroyed 3,000 houses and damaged 11,458.

1 September: Hurricane Hanna ravaged the Artibonite and Nord-Est départements.

6 September: Hurricane Ike, a category 4 hurricane, grazed the western coastline of Haiti, leading to heavy rain in Nord, Ouest and Nord-Ouest départements.

2009

20 October: heavy rain in the Haitian capital and its suburbs. Carrefour, in the southern suburbs, was completely flooded.

2010

12 January: the magnitude 7.0 2010 Haiti earthquake which occurred on 12 at 16:53, local time. The earthquake killed between 46,000 and 316,000 people. Its epicentre was at approximately 25 km from Port-au-Prince, the capital. A dozen secondary shocks of magnitudes ranging from 5.0 to 5.9 were registered during the hours which followed.

20 January: A second earthquake[15][16] of magnitude 6.1 occurred on 20 January 2010 at 06:03 local time. Its epicentre was at approximately 59 km west of Port-au-Prince, and at least 10 km beneath the surface.

20 October: A cholera epidemic hit outside of Port-au-Prince, killing at least 3,597 and sickening over 340,000.[17]

5 November: Hurricane Tomas hits and kills at least 10 Haitiens causing damage and worsening the cholera epidemic.

2016
3–4 October: Hurricane Matthew hits Haiti with catastrophic flooding of up to 40 inches and storm surge of up to 10 feet.[18] At least 580 people were killed and more than 35,000 left homeless by the storm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sters_in_Haiti
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Old January 20th, 2018, 09:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
Are there still Marxists in the World? I thought they all went away when the late USSR went belly up.
For now lets assume you meant that as a joke. Just in case you did not. (Cuba,Venezuela,North Korea)
Quote:
As for US history with Haiti - yah, there's been a lot of it. We dithered on recognizing the first black government there - didn't want slaves in the US South to get the wrong idea - which probably didn't help Haiti any. & US banks extended credit & loans to Haiti because they saw a chance to make a profit. & we declared the Monroe Doctrine - so it was hard for other countries to get a foot in the door.
The slavery issue is ancient history. The Monroe doctrine pretty much is to. The US Banks made bad loans apparently. So, basically your not arguing if its a shit hole or not your justifying why it is.

Last edited by imaginethat; January 21st, 2018 at 08:56 AM.
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Old January 20th, 2018, 09:59 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
You're kidding, right? In the last 41 years:
1976

6 January: 8.6 Earthquake at Port-au-Prince.

20 May: Floods in the Cayes-Jacmel region. 20 people lost presumed dead, considerable property damage.

1980

5 August: Hurricane Allen, at more than 270 km/h, struck the south coast, especially the Cayes-Jacmel region, causing approximately 200 deaths.

1984

10 June: floods at Port-de-Paix.

1986

1 June: Floods in the Cayes-Jacmel region. 20,000 hectares of land were flooded and several thousand homes damaged.

23 October: flooding at Ile de la Gonâve. 31 killed, 906 homeless, more than 380 houses destroyed or damaged.

1988

11 September: Hurricane Gilbert devastated the south coast, particularly the Anse-à-Veau, Camp-Perrin, Cavaillon, Cayes, Île à Vache, Jacmel, Jérémie, Kenscoff and Port-Salut regions.

1989

23 February: flooding in Île de la Gonâve. 4,945 familles affected, 1,527 houses destroyed and 1640 damaged.

1994

12 and 13 November: Hurricane Gordon crossed Sud-Est département and the southern peninsula, causing flooding and approximately 2,000 deaths and disappearances.

1998

23 September: Hurricane Georges devastated the Sud-Est and Nord-Ouest départements, causing 147 deaths, 34 serious injuries, 40 disappearances, and 167,500 displaced.

2002

24–27 May: Flooding on the southern peninsula. The town of Camp Perrin and the settlements of L'Asile and Anse-à-Veau were worst affected by the tropical storms. 31 dead, 14 disappeared and more than 7,000 displaced in the dans le Sud département.

2004

23–24 May: Torrential rains which pounded the south-east of Haiti during the night caused 1,232 deaths, 1,443 disappearances and 31,130 displaced persons.

10 September: Hurricane Ivan struck the southern peninsula and west coast, causing serious damage in several areas due to flooding.

18–19 September: Hurricane Jeanne crossed the western section of Haiti and the Artibonite, causing flooding which killed 1,870. In addition: 2,620 injured, 846 disappeared and 300,000 displaced. With more than 3,000 dead, Gonaïves was the most seriously affected city.

2005

6 and 7 July: Hurricane Dennis touched the south-east coast of Haiti, causing flooding in several towns in Sud (Bainet, Grand-Goâve, Les Cayes...) and leaving more than 500 homeless.

4 October: Floods in several parts of the country, including Pétion-Ville and Grand-Goâve in Ouest département, where the high water caused considerable loss of property. The government did not make a final accounting of this catastrophe.

17–18 October: Hurricane Wilma struck the west and south of Haiti.

23 October: Tropical Storm Alpha crossed the south peninsula, affecting the départements of Grand'Anse and Nippes.

25 October: Flooding caused by torrential rain hit many parts of the Nord-Ouest département, particularly the settlements of Port-de-Paix, Bassin-Bleu, Anse-à-Foleur and Saint-Louis du Nord.

2006

22 and 23 November: heavy rain caused flooding in Grand'Anse, Nippes and Nord-Ouest départements, causing damage to roadways including the collapse of a bridge across Ravine Sable at Trou-Bonbon.

2007

17 March: floods caused by rain and storms hit a large part of Haiti for over a week.

8–9 May: torrential rain, causing considerable damage in several regions of the country, in particular in the Nord, Nord-Est and Sud départements. The town of Ouanaminthe was particularly hard hit and the bridge between Ouanaminthe and Dajabón which links Haiti to the Dominican Republic was severely damaged.

2008

16 August: Tropical Storm Fay crossed the entire country.

26 August: Hurricane Gustav crosses the south peninsula, including the Sud and Grand'Anse départements, causing approximately 77 deaths and 8 disappearances, together with serious destruction of property. 15,000 families were affected by the storm, which destroyed 3,000 houses and damaged 11,458.

1 September: Hurricane Hanna ravaged the Artibonite and Nord-Est départements.

6 September: Hurricane Ike, a category 4 hurricane, grazed the western coastline of Haiti, leading to heavy rain in Nord, Ouest and Nord-Ouest départements.

2009

20 October: heavy rain in the Haitian capital and its suburbs. Carrefour, in the southern suburbs, was completely flooded.

2010

12 January: the magnitude 7.0 2010 Haiti earthquake which occurred on 12 at 16:53, local time. The earthquake killed between 46,000 and 316,000 people. Its epicentre was at approximately 25 km from Port-au-Prince, the capital. A dozen secondary shocks of magnitudes ranging from 5.0 to 5.9 were registered during the hours which followed.

20 January: A second earthquake[15][16] of magnitude 6.1 occurred on 20 January 2010 at 06:03 local time. Its epicentre was at approximately 59 km west of Port-au-Prince, and at least 10 km beneath the surface.

20 October: A cholera epidemic hit outside of Port-au-Prince, killing at least 3,597 and sickening over 340,000.[17]

5 November: Hurricane Tomas hits and kills at least 10 Haitiens causing damage and worsening the cholera epidemic.

2016
3–4 October: Hurricane Matthew hits Haiti with catastrophic flooding of up to 40 inches and storm surge of up to 10 feet.[18] At least 580 people were killed and more than 35,000 left homeless by the storm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sters_in_Haiti
So your not arguing over rather it is or not. You are rationalizing why it is.
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Old January 20th, 2018, 10:08 PM   #8
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So your not arguing over rather it is or not. You are rationalizing why it is.


If one were religious one might almost think that God had it in for them for transgressions like voodoo.
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Old January 20th, 2018, 10:19 PM   #9
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So your not arguing over rather it is or not. You are rationalizing why it is.
I'm explaining the situation.

Do you really want to defend the use of shithole?
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Old January 20th, 2018, 10:37 PM   #10
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Shithole applies to Denver and San Francisco thanks to public defecation, which is thanks to crazed liberals.
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