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Old February 10th, 2018, 06:45 AM   #21
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Yes the US is the worst! Especially now that the powers behind the scenes of the American Empire(starting with the CIA-which is tasked with making these future projections of world affairs) have realized for the past 20 years that the empire is collapsing in upon itself. They are becoming increasingly more ruthless and desperate to maintain rulership of global trade, currency and economic policy. The "Pivot to Asia" announced under Obama...essentially pivoting the majority of US carrier fleets and naval resources to point east and aim at China, is one part of the US response to China's economic rise, by attempting to intimidate and bluff China and its other trade partners that the US is willing to go to war with them to prevent being moved off of center stage.

It's not just a matter of intentions or desires! It's also about destructive potential...and if you have military forces that outspend the next 10 largest combined, that makes your country the worst offender in causing human misery by starting and deliberately prolonging wars around the world.


NO, Jimmy's a member of the club also, as the Counterpunch article and a few other independent sources have laid out before: https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08...enched-legacy/ as contributor- Matt Peppe showed, Jimmy Carter was a lot like Barack and certainly not at all like Trump..who openly flaunts his beligerence. But, while Carter was making a public show of concern for human rights around the world, he was propping up the usual dictators in Central and South America, Africa and Asia. Worst thing he did was start the US policy of arming Saudi jihadists sent to Afghanistan...the Mujaheddin...which became better known as Al Qaeda a coupld of decades later! No, it wasn't Reagan who started sending them arms...it was Jimmy!

Someone like Mike Pence perhaps? Because if you get your wish and Trump is impeached as a result of Mueller's investigations, that's what you'll end up with: a well mannered, intelligent, diabolical shark, who's capable of causing evil that Trump can only wish for!
I'm still stuck on that poll conducted back in November, showing 52% of Democrats declaring a favorable opinion of GW Bush. What exactly does it mean policy wise, or ideologically to be a Democrat anyway? One thing a lot of low brow Americans are becoming sure of is the Democratic Party does not represent average working people and has no interest in them...cause that's not where the money is!
Which is the truth, since we learned thanks to Wikileaks(and Donna Brasile), that those sore loser democrats...DNC to be exact, were under the control of the Clinton Campaign and doing their bidding all through the primaries. It was all a sham by an organization that decided before the campaign began who would be the leader of their party. I just want to know why there's no focus on the internal rigging of the primaries, caucuses and let's not forget "super" delegates who had been rounded up and had deals made before the campaign started. Instead, we get breathless breaking news on CNN about Russian trolls buying $100,000 worth of Facebook ads to fix the Election for Trump...which sure was an efficient operation compared to Hillary's multibillion dollar campaign for the White House!

.
And what evidence did George provide?


Like I said before, I'm not interested in the dance between Dems and Repubs, but what revelations like the Nunes Memo tell us about Mueller and how the FBI functions....the real government in action.
What evidence did George provide........................................... ......?

I am far beyond weary of the recycled arguments made as if every discussion on Russian interference begins at square one, that all information in every discussion is brand new, never before posted, that no discussion on Russian interference has ever occurred, and that on the issue of Russian interference nothing has been settled.

Your side demands evidence when evidence pointing to Russian interference has been available for more than a year. This dishonest tactic admittedly has been used by many on both sides of the aisle.

Collusion? Perhaps. Interference that affected the outcome of the election? Maybe, maybe not.

But on the issue of Russian inference obviously with the intent to at least destroy US citizens trust in the electoral process but more likely to swing the vote to DJ who even publicly gave every indication he'd remove economic sanctions, how many damned times will it take for some people to "get" that Russian meddling has been confirmed, and confirmed, and confirmed, by multiple agencies in multiple countries? And no, dammit, I'm listing any of that information AGAIN.

Why? Because those holding the opinion that no Russian interference occurred aren't going to have their minds changed ... ever ... by anything. That's clear.

Like creationists who use science to prove what they already know and to provide "basis" to ignore what they want to ignore, you and your kin already know the Russians didn't interfere with our electoral process on behalf of Trump. But you don't stop there. You add the twist that even if they did, so? You deny US citizens any right to complain. You maintain that even if they did interfere it's just an example of how karma can be such a bitch.

At this point in this recycled "discussion," you, or Sab, or anyone else "who knows" will post an lol and point out my "failure" to provide "evidence." What a ruse. Evidence confirming what you already know is the only "evidence" you'll accept. You demonstrate this every time you recycle the exact same arguments, which you do continuously.

Pure obfuscation, in a desperate charade purposed to keep your mind closed on a topic that is still very open. Let me say it again: The fact of the matter is the case on Russian interference is still very open.

As for all the rest of your, and others', absolutely anti-US rhetoric, it's your opinion and you're welcome to it. However, all should note you stand with the US' enemies. Perhaps one day you'll find the motivation to act on your loathing and move to Russia, or China.

I adamantly disagree with your blanket condemnation of the US, but then previously we've debated the relative sins of the US as compared to say Brazil, or Russia, or China. We will never agree. Where you see black and white I see an infinite number of shades of grey. You and your kin paralyze forward progress with your freeze framing of the US. With your black and white, either/or opinions, you throw huge obstacles in the path of our nation moving forward with your barricades of historical events which cannot be changed.

And you always present the US sins in a child's mind isolation as if without the US' sins the world would be a sin-free community.

Your tactics have resulted in making America great again by the current occupant of the White House, though he'd rather not slum around in it. If it only had a golf course.........
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Old February 10th, 2018, 07:10 AM   #22
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Beware of those communist, they are behind the student riots and are infiltrating into our government.

Really folks, why make a big fuss over the latest cry of wolf? And why are we personally attacking members of the forum for their understanding? What is really happening here?

Has our media been compromised? yes. Has the public been dumbed down and now thinks gossip is news? yes. Do our own people use the media to sell us false ideas? yes. What else is Trump's use of heroes and military parade except selling the Trump brand of a better America?

Exactly what is the problem discussed in this thread and is there a solution? If there are no solutions, what do we have to gain by continuing the discussion?
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:43 AM   #23
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Watch. Watch former Bush supporters hang him.

But when you do the tally, both Bush and Trump have admitted Russia interfered.

When will DJ's base get up to speed??
George W. Bush: There's clear evidence Russia 'meddled' in 2016 election

Former President George W. Bush said Thursday that there is "pretty clear evidence that the Russians meddled" in the 2016 presidential election, a seeming rebuke of President Donald Trump, who has at times questioned the intelligence community’s assessment that the Kremlin is to blame.

"Whether [Russia] affected the outcome is another question," Bush said at a conference in Abu Dhabi, according to a USA Today report. "It’s problematic that a foreign nation is involved in our election system. Our democracy is only as good as people trust the results.”

The former president did not mention Trump by name, but Bush’s unequivocal statements on the issue ran counter to the rhetoric that has emerged from the Trump administration. Trump himself was slow to accept the intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia had operated an interference campaign targeting the 2016 election with the aim of aiding his candidacy, insisting for a time that it was China or even a "400-pound person sitting in bed."

The president has since conceded that the Russian government was behind the cyber campaign but has been decidedly soft in his rhetoric toward the Kremlin, especially relative to his get-tough approach to foreign policy elsewhere around the globe. Trump’s stance on Russia has puzzled U.S. allies and lawmakers from both parties.
More: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...eddling-398173
I notice you omitted Obimbo from the list. Why?
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:47 AM   #24
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George Bush was the dumbest and probably the worst president

except for when he says something I agree with
Thanks from Sabcat and right to left
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:49 AM   #25
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Beware of those communist, they are behind the student riots and are infiltrating into our government.

Really folks, why make a big fuss over the latest cry of wolf? And why are we personally attacking members of the forum for their understanding? What is really happening here?

Has our media been compromised? yes. Has the public been dumbed down and now thinks gossip is news? yes. Do our own people use the media to sell us false ideas? yes. What else is Trump's use of heroes and military parade except selling the Trump brand of a better America?

Exactly what is the problem discussed in this thread and is there a solution? If there are no solutions, what do we have to gain by continuing the discussion?
The point of this thread is to discuss the reality that the right continues denying Russian interference and vociferously denies that the Russian interference had any effect on the election .... unless it was to help Hillary.

That is pure unadulterated BS, yet it's repeated endlessly.

We have people right here right now on DTT "demanding" proof of Russian interference, yet every source of such proof they've discounted out of hand. Now meditate on that for a moment: We demand proof, but every source of proof is biased so the evidence must be disregarded, i.e., there's no proof.

That's a rock-solid wall they've constructed around themselves. Their role in every such discussion on Russian interference is thus completely dishonest, an in your face dishonest.

It's way past time to call them out on their total dishonesty. That's part of the solution unless you have some rationale for keeping silent about it.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:49 AM   #26
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What evidence did George provide........................................... ......?

I am far beyond weary of the recycled arguments made as if every discussion on Russian interference begins at square one, that all information in every discussion is brand new, never before posted, that no discussion on Russian interference has ever occurred, and that on the issue of Russian interference nothing has been settled.
Didn't you write some bullshit awhile back(that I didn't have time to respond to) contending that the Russian $100,000 worth of Facebook ads placed by some Russians not proven to have government connections....half of which were placed AFTER the General Election, and most laughably of all, some of those ads featured cat gifs and videos in an obvious attempt to attract as much clickbait as possible ...that all of this was still evidence that Russia had fixed the Election because...well, as I recall, you pulled out the chaos theory phenomena of the Butterfly Effect...most commonly used to explain why it's so hard to predict weather in a large and chaotic system?

And you and your Team Dem allies never respond to my prime objection: the prolific and wanton interference by the US Government and its various three letter agencies in other nations' elections(including Russia)...many times for shitty reasons as basic as aiding the interests of US-based banks and corporations! Well, at least it's not as bad as invoking military coups or spawning terrorist groups to wreak havoc in nations targeted for regime change!


Quote:
But on the issue of Russian inference obviously with the intent to at least destroy US citizens trust in the electoral process but more likely to swing the vote to DJ who even publicly gave every indication he'd remove economic sanctions, how many damned times will it take for some people to "get" that Russian meddling has been confirmed, and confirmed, and confirmed, by multiple agencies in multiple countries? And no, dammit, I'm listing any of that information AGAIN.
The primary reason why there is a lack of trust in your electoral process is because it doesn't really deserve any trust! In most actual democratic nations...like where I live now, you don't have to fight every two to four years to keep your name on the electoral rolls! Even if you're sitting in a prison cell in Canada, you can still register to vote. In some US states like Florida, they decided to remove everyone who has had a criminal record from having a vote, and Democrats...who are either the Keystone Cops or Washington Generals of the US system, did little or nothing to fight the issue...cause they were afraid they'd be targeted for "being soft on crime" by Republicans. The net effect was that large numbers of those carrying criminal records are from demographic groups(and we all know who they are) who are specifically targeted by law enforcement and told by lawyers to just cop a plea deal even when they're innocent...cause they can't afford to fight it in court. And there's lots of other stuff...too numerous to mention that shows any Russians...whether it's RT or the shows I listen to every day on Radio Sputnik, do not have to do much digging to find the corruption and malfeasance in your system.

If "interference" can be done just by giving a platform to activist malcontents like Brian Becker, John Kiriakou, Eugene Puryear and Sean Blackmon to have a platform no one else has provided, to run the kinds of shows they want; it should be obvious that your concern shouldn'be be over there-----looking at the Russians....it should be looking within and doing something more than voting Democrat and working for the same Democrat bagmen every election!

And btw...when it comes to your new heroes in federal law enforcement, let's not forget that this Robert Mueller is the same man who crafted an internal memo a couple of years back when Black Lives Matter protests were starting, calling them among groups identified as "Black Identity Extremists" leading many older civil rights activists to recall the days of Hoover and COINTELPRO and the abuses by the FBI carried out at a time when the federales did not have carte blanche to violate constitutional rights/but kept their illegal search and surveillance activities hushed. Nowadays, there's nothing in the COINTELPRO memos and documents that could not be done legally....or at least with the flimsy rubberstamp legal authorization by a FISA court! But, now you Dems have added the FBI to the Resistancealong with Bush, and are paving the way for President Pence!

Last edited by right to left; February 10th, 2018 at 09:58 AM.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:52 AM   #27
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I notice you omitted Obimbo from the list. Why?
What list?

And by the way, we've never had a President Obimbo. I invite you to break your alternative facts habit. It might be painful at first, but you'll get used to it, and later on you'll wonder why you ever were afraid of reality.

Last edited by imaginethat; February 10th, 2018 at 10:22 AM.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:54 AM   #28
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Didn't you write some bullshit awhile back(that I didn't have time to respond to) contending that the Russian $100,000 worth of Facebook ads placed by some Russians not proven to have government connections....half of which were placed AFTER the General Election, and most laughably of all, some of those ads featured cat gifs and videos in an obvious attempt to attract as much clickbait as possible ...that all of this was still evidence that Russia had fixed the Election because...well, as I recall, you pulled out the chaos theory phenomena of the Butterfly Effect...most commonly used to explain why it's so hard to predict weather in a large and chaotic system?
Is there any damned reason to respond to your creating reality, and then debating over it?

That is a textbook strawman fallacy.

When you want to get real, and not start off a reply with a bullshit strawman argument, let's talk.

Last edited by imaginethat; February 10th, 2018 at 10:20 AM.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:57 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The point of this thread is to discuss the reality that the right continues denying Russian interference and vociferously denies that the Russian interference had any effect on the election .... unless it was to help Hillary.

That is pure unadulterated BS, yet it's repeated endlessly.

We have people right here right now on DTT "demanding" proof of Russian interference, yet every source of such proof they've discounted out of hand. Now meditate on that for a moment: We demand proof, but every source of proof is biased so the evidence must be disregarded, i.e., there's no proof.

That's a rock-solid wall they've constructed around themselves. Their role in every such discussion on Russian interference is thus completely dishonest, an in your face dishonest.

It's way past time to call them out on their total dishonesty. That's part of the solution unless you have some rationale for keeping silent about it.

SMH


Gotta spin the naritive bee-boo-be-bop the Russian did it bee-boo-be-bop they colluded w/ trump bee-boo-be-bop


Wait!!!wait!!!wait. Programming error.

They just influenced the election, you know like governments have been doing to each other since the days of kings

Bee-boo-be-bop

Putin bad. NWO good.


Buy. Sell. Consume.


Puff.puff.pass

Bee-boo-be-bop
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Old February 10th, 2018, 10:15 AM   #30
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Is that any damned reason to respond to your creating reality, and then debating over it?

That is a textbook strawman fallacy.

When you want to get real, and not start off a reply with a bullshit strawman argument, let's talk.
Well then, respond to the rest then! Like I said, I only had a vague recollection of the first on one of your explanations of Russian Interference and I didn't have time to jump on it and lost track; so what about evidence of US interference in affairs of other nations; the dismal state of the US duopoly system; how applying Russian media as examples of "interference" shows that all the Russians or Al Jazeera or TeleSUR or any other "anti-American" foreign media source has to do to interfere and destabilize the USA is provide a platform for dissenters that your oligarchs are not providing them! And next, I'd like to know how you justify or explain Democrat fawning over unelected military, intelligence and police officials as your new heroes!
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