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Old July 9th, 2018, 07:16 AM   #91
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I'm sure the well-worn wisdom that trade tariffs and restrictions cause capitalist economies to contract will hold true in the next 12 months or so. But how much of coming economic troubles will be due to trade issues, and how much will come from rising oil prices caused by global uncertainty about whether or not the US will attack Iran and lead to disaster for countries dependent on oil exports from Persian Gulf countries?

I have a hard time getting excited about so called "free trade" anyway, since the present global trading regime has only benefited the wealthy- who control the flows of capital around the world. It hasn't been a benefit to average workers in any country!

And, there are other issues...such as environmental impacts, that are made much worse by expanded trade transport links and economic specialization in agriculture for one example.

I don't know if anyone will notice it, but I posted a thread on one of the few writers I have found who tie all these threads together and makes a strong argument for re-localizing economies/ not expanding trade and specialization: Globalisation versus community

https://www.localfutures.org/globali...sus-community/
I don't think I can bear to read any more of your link because it hurts too much. We are so soured on human beings, and we think it is natural to lack personal power and compassion. We disrespect each other and see those who are not one of us as our enemy we must keep out. This is the destruction of our humanness that leads to wars. We need to question what we are doing around the world and if this is the path humans should follow? The quotes are from your link and I started another thread about becoming human. I hope we can discuss our humanness and happiness in the other thread. Maybe we do want tariffs and restricted trade? I know for social reasons, I would like to see local ownership of all land and businesses.

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The end result of all this long-distance transport of subsidised goods is that Ladakh’s local economy is being steadily dismantled, and with it the local community that was once tied together by bonds of interdependence....

The result has been a growing insecurity and competitiveness—even leading to ethnic conflict—amongst a once secure and cooperative people. A range of related social problems has appeared almost overnight, including crime, family breakup and homelessness. And as the Ladakhis have become separated from the land, their awareness of the limits of local resources has dimmed. Pollution is on the increase, and the population is growing at unsustainable rates.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 07:22 AM   #92
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I want to talk about Trump's strategy. Humans are humans no matter where they live and how does Trump's strategy differ from Hitler's, other than Hitler scapegoated Jews and Trump is scapegoating Mexicans? Notice how he is stirring up the crowd, building their morale by dehumanizing the "enemy". This works in war and football, but it is an honorable human value, when the game is more serious than football? Is this the way humans should behave or does it look more like how primates behave?

If it were not for "those" people ruining our economy, our lives would be so much better, and as your leader, I will take care of the problem and then you will have the lives you deserve.
Trump's strategy?? LOL.....you are assuming Trump HAS A strategy??
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Old July 9th, 2018, 07:28 AM   #93
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Trump's strategy?? LOL.....you are assuming Trump HAS A strategy??
He does have a strategy- enrich Trump. That should be quite clear by now.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 08:09 AM   #94
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I think we have a choice. Either we have Social Security and all the other government subsidies for low-income people, including a national health care system that we all pay for, or by law everyone's wages need to be enough to actually cover the cost of the living and investing in a pension plan.

Now if everyone gets a truly decent wage, millions of jobs done by low-income people will no longer be affordable and that will result in a cascade of economic problems such as no more janitorial work or fast food places providing necessary jobs for millions of people and contributing to the gross national product that means our nation has good credit.

Look at this and it doesn't even include the pension for old age!

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MONTHLY COSTS
2 adults and 2 children
Ventura County, CA
HOUSING $1,739
FOOD $860
CHILD CARE $1,290
Transportation $1,390
HEALTH CARE $1,109
OTHER NECESSITIES $1,049
TAXES $1,336
Monthly Total $8,772
Annual Total $105,269
You can get the budget needed in different areas buy going here..
https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/

Now, look at this...
Quote:
The weekly take-home pay for a 40-hour-a-week minimum-wage employee, after Social Security and Medicare taxes. That adds up to $13,926.38 per year, or just over $1,150 per month. The commonly cited minimum wage annual salary for a 40-hour-a-week worker is $15,080 — before taxes.Sep 24, 2014
Minimum Wage - Huffington Post
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../m...n_5868848.html
How do people do it when the cost of living is $8,772 a month and the income is $1,150?

If someone was born in 1969 and earned minimum wage, the Social Security benefit at age 62 would be $822.00 far below the cost of living. That may cover rent but nothing else. That is figured at this link . https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/ That is to say minimum wage workers will never have the money to invest in a private pension plan, nor enough to buy a home, and they are screwed. They can have decent lives after a lifetime of work only if they receive government subsidies.

Last edited by Athena; July 9th, 2018 at 08:17 AM.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 08:22 AM   #95
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He does have a strategy- enrich Trump. That should be quite clear by now.
I believe Trump does believe what he is doing is best for the people and our economy, and so do his followers. None of them have studied the reality. If what they believe is not right we need to increase awareness of what is wrong with Trump's ideas. This forum may not reach a lot of people, but the better we make the forum, the more people will come and there is a chance we can make a difference. The only question is if we can make a difference fast enough?
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Old July 9th, 2018, 08:28 AM   #96
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I think we have a choice. Either we have Social Security and all the other government subsidies for low-income people, including a national health care system that we all pay for, or by law everyone's wages need to be enough to actually cover the cost of the living and investing in a pension plan.

Now if everyone gets a truly decent wage, millions of jobs done by low-income people will no longer be affordable and that will result in a cascade of economic problems such as no more janitorial work or fast food places providing necessary jobs for millions of people and contributing to the gross national product that means our nation has good credit.

Look at this and it doesn't even include the pension for old age!



You can get the budget needed in different areas buy going here..
https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/

Now, look at this...


How do people do it when the cost of living is $8,772 a month and the income is $1,150?

If someone was born in 1969 and earned minimum wage, the Social Security benefit at age 62 would be $822.00 far below the cost of living. That may cover rent but nothing else. That is figured at this link . https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/ That is to say minimum wage workers will never have the money to invest in a private pension plan, nor enough to buy a home, and they are screwed. They can have decent lives after a lifetime of work only if they receive government subsidies.


Quote:

The minimum wage in the two years before 1966 was five 90% silver quarters. That 90% silver $1.25 is roughly $25 in today's money. Let me be clear: if the minimum wage had stayed at a mere $1.25 an hour and the central bank had not debased the money supply forcing the reduction or removal of the silver content, minimum wage workers would have been roughly two or three times better off today in terms of real purchasing power than they currently are with a nominal minimum wage nearly six times the nominal amount prior to 1966. Because of money supply inflation, the minimum wage is nearly six times as high…but buys roughly half as much…or less.

Put another way, a pre-debasement quarter can still buy you a gallon of gas…with change left over. A gallon of gas cost about 15 minutes of minimum wage labor in the early 1960s. Gas has actually gotten cheaper relative to gold and silver money since then. A minimum wage worker in 1963 could work for ten minutes, then send the wages of those ten minutes (two 90% silver dimes worth about four of today's dollars) forward in time and buy a gallon of gas. It takes today's minimum wage worker about three times as long to earn that same gallon.

Every nominal increase in the minimum wage after the silver was removed from the coinage has been a lie.





https://dollarvigilante.com/blog/201...imum-wage.html
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Old July 9th, 2018, 08:35 AM   #97
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Trump's strategy?? LOL.....you are assuming Trump HAS A strategy??
I think you missed the point and that is a serious problem! The Nazi party won and took control of Germany because it had the best strategy for winning. They were the first to campaign year round if there was an election or not. They went into rural communities and rented a place for dancing and lecturing. The dancing was to attract people and pay for the building and the lecturer, and the real purpose was to find out what made people the most angry and then to announce it is the purpose of the party to resolve the problem. Then when an election came up, they were the first to send letters to everyone to encourage them to vote.

They focused on people's fears and anger exactly as Trump is doing, and like Trump, they told every community what a great community they had. Do you see the strategy now? Use people's fears and anger to rally them into action, and flatter them to make them feel good and therefore willing to support the party/candidate. The only required action is to depend on the Nazi party and vote for it. The great leader will take care of everything else.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 08:53 AM   #98
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I believe Trump does believe what he is doing is best for the people and our economy, and so do his followers. None of them have studied the reality. If what they believe is not right we need to increase awareness of what is wrong with Trump's ideas. This forum may not reach a lot of people, but the better we make the forum, the more people will come and there is a chance we can make a difference. The only question is if we can make a difference fast enough?
I seriously do not believe Trump gives one rat's ass about anyone but himself. That's been clear throughout his entire life, and it should be clear now. I think it would also be a mistake not to recognize that.

But I do indeed hear you. The strategy is as old as the hills. It's not hard to see what conservatives are up to at all- demonize everyone who is not like them- immigrants, gays, blacks, trans folks, etc. Blame everything wrong in the country on them. Because you know- everything is someone else's fault. God forbid any of these people take responsibility for themselves.

Last edited by leekohler2; July 9th, 2018 at 08:57 AM.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 09:09 AM   #99
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I don't remember you chiming in when I posted about how our coins had value because they actually contained the gold, silver, copper, nickel that gave them value.

Inflation of the value of money deflates the value of debt.

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Government Debt & Inflation | The Money Enigma

Once government debt accumulates to a point that the market decides that the debt is unsustainable, the market will begin to discount (i) slower future output growth (deficits must be reigned in), and/or (ii) higher monetary base growth (at the margin, more funding needs to be financed by money creation).

The combined shift in these expectations (lower long-term output growth, higher long-term monetary base growth) puts downward pressure on the market value of money and upward pressure on the price level.

In this situation, a central bank may quickly become impotent in its fight against inflation as it losses control over long-term expectations.
Remember Germany had hyperinflation that was so bad people demanded pay twice a day and a family member would pick up the pay and immediately buy food for the next meal, because by the time of the next meal, it took even more money to buy the food. Sellers didn't want to sell, because could make more money a few hours later. This economic chaos led to starvation and loosing everything. It took extremely strong measures to get control of the hyperinflation and people were very angry, making it easy for the new and promising Nazi party to get control.

I think we need a better understanding of money and perhaps we should start a thread for that?
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Old July 9th, 2018, 09:43 AM   #100
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I seriously do not believe Trump gives one rat's ass about anyone but himself. That's been clear throughout his entire life, and it should be clear now. I think it would also be a mistake not to recognize that.

But I do indeed hear you. The strategy is as old as the hills. It's not hard to see what conservatives are up to at all- demonize everyone who is not like them- immigrants, gays, blacks, trans folks, etc. Blame everything wrong in the country on them. Because you know- everything is someone else's fault. God forbid any of these people take responsibility for themselves.
I think it is a mistake to not consider what his ego has to do with his decisions. I think, like Hitler, he was displeased by political decisions and he thinks he is the best person to set things right. He is so sure of himself he does not question himself, nor does he seek counsel from others. His followers find this very attractive and that is our real national problem.

I am wondering how many understand what replacing our liberal education with education for technology, has to do with this? Instead of preparing the young for independent thinking, they learned "group think" and reliance on the "experts". That advances technology very rapidly but it is devastating to democracy. It also goes with the change in bureaucracy and the change in social order. Where in the past we were ordered by family order, we are now ordered by policies dictated by bureaucracies and we have totally forgotten the value of family order. But that problem begins with our industrial economy that forced us all to put our jobs above our families and to suppress our human needs in the struggle for the dollar.

Excuse me, I just had a very emotional call from a young telemarketer who told me I remind him of his grandmother and that he will look for a better job. Grandparents are very important and our technological society with unknown values and Nazi-like youth worshipping is not good for humanity.
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