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Old July 12th, 2018, 04:38 PM   #121
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If something were interested in micromanaging my life, it would be doing so now.
What empirical evidence can you offer that establishes beyond a doubt that your life isn't being micromanaged by "something?"
You can't. No one can.

Agnosticism is the foundation upon which all personal spiritual beliefs, whether theistic or atheistic or indifferent, should be built, because when you finally break it on down, some things simply cannot be known.

I look at it as a marker in my life, the point at which I truly became comfortable with mystery. Humans seem driven to have an answer for everything, or believe that they have an answer, but we commit an error by believing that having an answer for everything is possible.

Whether a person believes in God or in gods, doesn't believe in God or gods, is open to believing in God or gods if either ever shows his/her/their hands, believes one way or the other it doesn't really matter, or believes something else, obviously the person's choice is based on belief, and their belief is based on their faith that the choice is the right one.

Is there a God, or gods, or beings occupying dimensions currently invisible to us, who is/are our Creator/creators?

Maybe, maybe not, no one can know. Does it matter?

No one can know that either.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 05:53 PM   #122
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It is also bat crap crazy and un biblical.

It has nothing to do with how special I am, it is about how big the sacrifice was.

If God was going to save us all anyway, why the cross, why the crucifixion? Why unless a man be born again, why two will be in the field, one will be taken one will be left.
Are we back to "the Bible is right because the Bible says so and MY interpretation of that Bible is right because I say so?"
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Old July 12th, 2018, 05:57 PM   #123
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Are we back to "the Bible is right because the Bible says so and MY interpretation of that Bible is right because I say so?"
do they ever not do this?


it's wild, just wild
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Old July 12th, 2018, 09:59 PM   #124
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You can't. No one can.

Agnosticism is the foundation upon which all personal spiritual beliefs, whether theistic or atheistic or indifferent, should be built, because when you finally break it on down, some things simply cannot be known.

I look at it as a marker in my life, the point at which I truly became comfortable with mystery. Humans seem driven to have an answer for everything, or believe that they have an answer, but we commit an error by believing that having an answer for everything is possible.

Whether a person believes in God or in gods, doesn't believe in God or gods, is open to believing in God or gods if either ever shows his/her/their hands, believes one way or the other it doesn't really matter, or believes something else, obviously the person's choice is based on belief, and their belief is based on their faith that the choice is the right one.

Is there a God, or gods, or beings occupying dimensions currently invisible to us, who is/are our Creator/creators?

Maybe, maybe not, no one can know. Does it matter?

No one can know that either.
Yep, and it matters not one bit, when it comes down to it. That is why religion should never get to make the rules for everyone.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 01:21 AM   #125
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Yep, and it matters not one bit, when it comes down to it. That is why religion should never get to make the rules for everyone.
Religion, including atheism, should not make the rules for everyone, but as to "it" mattering not one bit, no one can know that.

Last edited by imaginethat; July 13th, 2018 at 01:23 AM.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 03:18 AM   #126
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Ask Yeshua when you see him. I'm not sure. Until then:

"He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross." -- Colossians 1:17-20


Universal salvation rings throughout the Scriptures. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
"For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love." -- Lamentations 3:31-33
And:

"We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." -- 1 Timothy 4:10


Studying early Christian history might be helpful. Universal salvation was widely believed initially. Six major theological schools existed. Four taught universal reconciliation, one taught annihilationism, and one taught conditional salvation and eternal hell, a concept completely foreign to the Israelites and later the Jews.

Constantine and others aligned themselves with the latter, and deemed universal salvation as heresy punishable by death. But, a remnant survived.

Enough history from me, I encourage you to study early church history, and how, through the sword, the eternal hell believers came to totally dominate Christian theology.

I may have suggested this to you before. It is concise and convincing:
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
It's worth your time.
John 14:6
To get to God the Father in heaven, a person must believe in Him. Without believing in Jesus, a person cannot go to heaven. There is no other way.

For sinful human beings to join the holy and sinless God in heaven, our sins must be paid for. The due payment is the death penalty, to be paid by either the sinner or on behalf of the sinner by someone who is sinless and does not have his own sins to die for. Only Jesus was sinless and only Jesus died for our sins: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

You might then say, then what about all of the religions that claim that there are other ways?
Either Jesus is lying and all of those religions are right, or Jesus is right and all of those religions are lying.

You might then ask why would so many religions lie?
Satan's endeavor to draw people away from "the way" includes putting up as many fake ways as possible.

Do you believe Jesus was crucified, buried, and rose on the third day?
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Old July 13th, 2018, 03:20 AM   #127
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Are we back to "the Bible is right because the Bible says so and MY interpretation of that Bible is right because I say so?"

That is not mentioned in my post, try to keep up, The Bible is right period, it doesn't matter whether I or anyone else believes it.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 06:39 AM   #128
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That is not mentioned in my post, try to keep up, The Bible is right period, it doesn't matter whether I or anyone else believes it.
It does not need to be mentioned as that is what you do.
Did you not claim another's comment here was "bat shit crazy" (as in wrong or incorrect) because is was unbibical?
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Old July 13th, 2018, 06:46 AM   #129
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That is not mentioned in my post, try to keep up, The Bible is right period, it doesn't matter whether I or anyone else believes it.
Well of course it is,

Now take your meds and get some rest.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 06:51 AM   #130
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Religion, including atheism, should not make the rules for everyone, but as to "it" mattering not one bit, no one can know that.
Religion, is a claim made with absolutely no proof. Until proof can be given, it matters not one bit. It was constructed by human beings.
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