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Old July 12th, 2018, 09:22 AM   #21
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You left out, or should I say Wikipedia left out some facts. It was very controversial. There was several charges, many of them they were found not guilty of. This was no easy arson case. At least one fire was absolutely set as a back fire by the Hammond brothers in an attempt to protect their winter feed. The first one, as you stated allegedly was set to cover up poaching, of which no evidence was ever found. The Hammond brothers claimed they were doing a prescribed burn to clear out invasive species, which is a common practice.
So you parrot the propaganda excuses in order to ignore the facts.
Color me unsurprised...


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During the trial, the Hammond struck a deal. They were sentenced by the court. The prosecution did not like the sentence. After serving their original sentence, they were then dragged back into court to be sentenced again to more time. That is bullshit. That led to the seizing of the refuge office in burns Oregon, that the Bundy's, who seized said office, were found not guilty of all charges, and one federal agent, who shot Lavoy FInicum, is currently under indictment for false statements in relation to the shooting.
None of which has any significance on the issue of their guilt.


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Sabcats description stands
You've done absolutely nothing to defend the thread title.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #22
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Pot, meet kettle.
So, you admit it. Your defense is that you're not the ONLY person to ever have done it.
Fucking brilliant!
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:39 AM   #23
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So you parrot the propaganda excuses in order to ignore the facts.
Color me unsurprised...



None of which has any significance on the issue of their guilt.



You've done absolutely nothing to defend the thread title.
The fact that they did agree to plead guilty to two crimes, then they were sentenced, then the state decided, after the fact, that they should be sentenced again, makes it a unjust fiasco against the Hammond brothers. It ought to have got them a new trial if they wanted. If this was a drug dealer they would have called it entrapment.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 08:02 AM   #24
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The fact that they did agree to plead guilty to two crimes, then they were sentenced, then the state decided, after the fact, that they should be sentenced again, makes it a unjust fiasco against the Hammond brothers. It ought to have got them a new trial if they wanted. If this was a drug dealer they would have called it entrapment.
No. It would definitively not be entrapment.
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offence that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

They already committed the crime. They needed no "inducement" for that. These two are criminals.

What is unjust is them committing the crime in the first place.
But you (and the right) are more interested in how they can get off rather than actual justice.
Quite frankly, if the sentence were explicitly listed in the plea agreement, then they would have grounds for violating the established plea agreement. But it looks like it wasn't, so your complaint is meaningless.

But I am amused you compare the Hammond brothers to a drug dealer. I think it's kind of appropriate.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 08:28 AM   #25
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Yeah, those fascists that want to protect public lands for everyone to use and from marauding, plundering ranchers to set fires and make illegal kills of endangered wildlife(that's the charge that wasn't filed cause they thought it would bring too much political risk with it).

Why not go on a grizzly bear hunt on your next trip to Yellowstone National Park!
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Old July 13th, 2018, 08:32 AM   #26
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But I am amused you compare the Hammond brothers to a drug dealer. I think it's kind of appropriate.
The only reason the right can wrap the Hammonds and the Bundy's and other exploiters of public lands(and unceded indigenous lands) in the flag and make it a patriotic moment is because they actually are a legacy of an important American tradition: killing the natives and laying waste to wildlands and exploiting all newly claimed lands for resources....you can wrap the stars n stripes around it!
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Old July 13th, 2018, 09:08 AM   #27
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The only reason the right can wrap the Hammonds and the Bundy's and other exploiters of public lands(and unceded indigenous lands) in the flag and make it a patriotic moment is because they actually are a legacy of an important American tradition: killing the natives and laying waste to wildlands and exploiting all newly claimed lands for resources....you can wrap the stars n stripes around it!
Yeah, I think you're right. There's no other way to justify what the Hammonds did. If I had my way, those fucks would spend life in prison. They threatened people and endangered the lives of firefighters. That's not justifiable in any way, shape or form.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 09:11 AM   #28
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Yeah, those fascists that want to protect public lands for everyone to use and from marauding, plundering ranchers to set fires and make illegal kills of endangered wildlife(that's the charge that wasn't filed cause they thought it would bring too much political risk with it).

Why not go on a grizzly bear hunt on your next trip to Yellowstone National Park!
I lived off of bear for a fair amount of time. I do not plan an eating that meat by choice anytime in the near future.

Before those ranchers were so sinister in allowing their cows to graze on those lands the state was in negotiations to allow the Chinese to build solar farms on these fragile "public lands"

The federal government is the single largest land holder in the states. This is wrong in every sense of the word. The federal government has no business holding lands w/in the states and all of it should be relinquished back to the states.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 11:49 AM   #29
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No. It would definitively not be entrapment.
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offence that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

They already committed the crime. They needed no "inducement" for that. These two are criminals.

What is unjust is them committing the crime in the first place.
But you (and the right) are more interested in how they can get off rather than actual justice.
Quite frankly, if the sentence were explicitly listed in the plea agreement, then they would have grounds for violating the established plea agreement. But it looks like it wasn't, so your complaint is meaningless.

But I am amused you compare the Hammond brothers to a drug dealer. I think it's kind of appropriate.
Once they were sentenced it should have been over. It was unfair for them to be sentenced, complete their sentence, then be dragged back to be sentenced again. You are right though, maybe its closer to being double jeopardy than entrapment. The Supreme court should be ashamed for not hearing the case. For that reason alone I support them being pardoned, which means that they are not criminals now. Can you imagine the outcry if a person gets released from prison, finished up their parole, then a few months later is arrested and dragged in front of a judge to receive a new sentence? Yeah, well that is exactly what happened.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 12:45 PM   #30
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How did the BLM “kidnap” two self admitted arsonists ?
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