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Old October 26th, 2009, 02:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindanielbrown
No, there are historical records of civilizations that survived and lived very prosperous for hundreds of years with no government.



Which again doesn't have to be forcefully extracted against the owners will. Again food, clothing, shelter etc requires hard cash but that does not justify stealing from another.



Who said I believe in government at all?



And those needs still don't justify stealing property from others in order to satisfy said needs just like no one has the right to steal for food, clothing, shelter, etc.



What you consider bare bones I most likely consider huge and bloated.



Also government can't be compassionate. Compassion is a human trait that only an individual can be a part of.



Again how can forecefully taking someone's property against there will ever be considered fair? The word "fair" is incompatible with stealing...
I'm unaware of any culture that functioned successfully for centuries that you speak of unless you are talking about primitive cultures and Indians. Any culture requires exchange of labor, goods, subordination or money for security... otherwise the pecking order comes into effect with might makes right.



You sound as though you may like the freedom of anarchism but since I can't view your physical abilities I have no means to determine how long you would like it. For every large man, black belt or other special skill there is an equalizer as simple as a small pistol. I suggest you try a commune before moving on up to anarchy-near freedom on a larger scale.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 02:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindanielbrown
Why is that? Why wouldn't anyone stop them?



I know I would....
ANd if they are bigger than you or more powerful, we have a "survival of the fittest" situation.



Quote:
I never claimed law enforcement isn't necessary. What butt are you pulling that out of?

On the contrary I do find law enforcement very necessary.
Law enforcement without a defined set of laws. How is that done without government in a nation of millions?



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There have been though.
Show me an organized group of people's with no authority to guide them.



Quote:
Ancient Ireland.
That includes religion. Which can be seen as a form of governing.



Quote:
Not necessarily.
Show me how they avoid falling into one of the definitions...

Government Definition | Definition of Government at Dictionary.com

It's rather easy to see how any form of society would find it difficult to survive without an entity that falls into at least one of the definitions of "government".
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Old October 27th, 2009, 11:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by fxashun
ANd if they are bigger than you or more powerful, we have a "survival of the fittest" situation.
The biggest and most powerful will always win. Government doesn't change that.



Quote:
Law enforcement without a defined set of laws.
I never said I don't want laws, on the contrary I do.



Quote:
How is that done without government in a nation of millions?
The way anything else is produced, provided, and distributed on the free market.



How are shoes produced without government in a nation of millions? I don't know the details of shoe production but I know that the market coordinates the production of them since they are demanded by consumers. Why would anything else be any different including law itself?



Quote:
That includes religion. Which can be seen as a form of governing.
No, religion did not force compliance in ancient Ireland.



Quote:
Show me how they avoid falling into one of the definitions...

Government Definition | Definition of Government at Dictionary.com

It's rather easy to see how any form of society would find it difficult to survive without an entity that falls into at least one of the definitions of "government".


For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard



Quote:
The most remarkable historical example of a society of libertarian law and courts, however, has been neglected by historians until very recently. And this was also a society where not only the courts and the law were largely libertarian, but where they operated within a purely state-less and libertarian society. This was ancient Ireland — an Ireland which persisted in this libertarian path for roughly a thousand years until its brutal conquest by England in the seventeenth century. And, in contrast to many similarly functioning primitive tribes (such as the Ibos in West Africa, and many European tribes), preconquest Ireland was not in any sense a "primitive" society: it was a highly complex society that was, for centuries, the most advanced, most scholarly, and most civilized in all of Western Europe.

For a thousand years, then, ancient Celtic Ireland had no State or anything like it. As the leading authority on ancient Irish law has written: "There was no legislature, no bailiffs, no police, no public enforcement of justice . . . . There was no trace of State-administered justice."
I know this blurb doesn't explain it all but if you read the link it will explain it all.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 11:39 AM   #24
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XUWnxc6-GA]YouTube - Illegal Drugs Bullshit[/ame]
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Old October 28th, 2009, 03:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindanielbrown
The biggest and most powerful will always win. Government doesn't change that.
Not true. That's what "equality" is. The government using force to ensure the weaker have a voice.



Quote:
I never said I don't want laws, on the contrary I do.
And how do you create and enforce laws without government?



Quote:
The way anything else is produced, provided, and distributed on the free market.



How are shoes produced without government in a nation of millions? I don't know the details of shoe production but I know that the market coordinates the production of them since they are demanded by consumers. Why would anything else be any different including law itself?
Law enforcement is not shoes. You have to be more specific. How do you impose rules of law, especially one that does not discriminate in some way, without government?



Quote:
No, religion did not force compliance in ancient Ireland.
Just how "ancient" are we talking?



Quote:
For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto - Murray N. Rothbard



I know this blurb doesn't explain it all but if you read the link it will explain it all.
And this will show that there was a system in place to administer law..

A (much) smaller Social History of Ancient Ireland - Chapter VI - The Brehon Laws



I'd also like to repeat, I doubt a dumbed down system would work in the modern much more densely populated and mobile world that we have today. The social, financial, and civil requirements of managing a population of hundreds of millions requires some form of governmental structure.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 04:13 PM   #26
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Taxing pot defeats the purpose of legalizing it. Instead of black marketeers profiting obscenely from selling it, the government will. Legalize it and MINIMALLY tax it. Hell, I'd trust pot dealers much more than the government as far as which would hose you over the most financially.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 09:13 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by leighredf
Taxing pot defeats the purpose of legalizing it. Instead of black marketeers profiting obscenely from selling it, the government will. Legalize it and MINIMALLY tax it. Hell, I'd trust pot dealers much more than the government as far as which would hose you over the most financially.


It's being illegal is against OUR freedom!
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Old May 8th, 2013, 08:50 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds View Post
You are right on that. Introducing more or higher taxes is a short term solution however has many negative long term effects. Here in Massachusetts, our wonderful govenor Deval Patrick raised taxes from 5% to 6.25%. Since he became govenor of Massachusetts, our state has uncontrolled spending, job losses (and more coming soon as he announced layoffs), foreclosures, etc. How can you raise taxes especially at a time when people could actually use the money to help pay off their own expenses?? I would expect lowering taxes would put money back into our pockets (and small businesses), allowing job growth and increased household spending.
Now that the National Internet Tax Mandate has cleared the U.S. Senate, you and I must create a firestorm of opposition to defeat this dangerous scheme in the U.S. House.

The good news is, House Judiciary Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) has publicly hinted at his opposition to the National Internet Tax Mandate.

That means if enough Americans make their voices heard on this critical issue, you and I can kill the National Internet Tax Mandate in the U.S. House.

So please sign your No National Internet Tax petition to make your voice heard, and please consider making a generous contribution to help Campaign for Liberty recruit more Americans to this vital fight.

No National Internet Tax Mandate!

HOW CAN WE END THE INCOME TAX!

We have a clause in Section 30 of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 allowing the US to buy back the Federal Reserve Corporation for roughly $500 billion dollars any time we wish. We may also abolish the Federal Reserve Corporation, or repeal the act, our choice. The last provision of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Sec. 30 states “the right to amend, alter or repeal this act is expressly reserved.” This language “means” that congress can at any time move to abolish the Federal Reserve System, or buy back the stock and make it part of the Treasury Department, or to alter the system as it sees fit.
http://web.archive.org/web/200702062...Flyer_Back.pdf

On June 4, 1963, a little known attempt was made to strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the government at interest. On that day President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order No. 11110 that returned to the U.S. government the power to issue currency, without going through the Federal Reserve. Mr. Kennedy's order gave the Treasury the power "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This meant that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation. In all, Kennedy brought nearly $4.3 billion in U.S. notes into circulation. The ramifications of this bill are enormous.

With the stroke of a pen, Mr. Kennedy was on his way to putting the Federal Reserve Bank of New York out of business. If enough of these silver certificats were to come into circulation they would have eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve notes. This is because the silver certificates are backed by silver and the Federal Reserve notes are not backed by anything. Executive Order 11110 could have prevented the national debt from reaching its current level, because it would have given the gevernment the ability to repay its debt without going to the Federal Reserve and being charged interest in order to create the new money. Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S. the ability to create its own money backed by silver.

After Mr. Kennedy was assassinated just five months later, no more silver certificates were issued. The Final Call has learned that the Executive Order was never repealed by any U.S. President through an Executive Order and is still valid. Why then has no president utilized it? Virtually all of the nearly $6 trillion in debt has been created since 1963, and if a U.S. president had utilized Executive Order 11110 the debt would be nowhere near the current level. Perhaps the assassination of JFK was a warning to future presidents who would think to eliminate the U.S. debt by eliminating the Federal Reserve's control over the creation of money. Mr. Kennedy challenged the government of money by challenging the two most successful vehicles that have ever been used to drive up debt - war and the creation of money by a privately-owned central bank. His efforts to have all troops out of Vietnam by 1965 and Executive Order 11110 would have severely cut into the profits and control of the New York banking establishment. As America's debt reaches unbearable levels , one is force to ask, will President Obama have the courage to consider utilizing Executive Order 11110 and, if so, is he willing to pay the ultimate price for doing so?
Coconut - Crisis: The precedents for repealing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913
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Old May 8th, 2013, 08:53 AM   #29
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Fixing post #24 can't edit it!

Illegal Drugs Bullshit - YouTube
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Old May 8th, 2013, 11:39 AM   #30
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How silly, it wouldn't raise that much money.

It is interesting to see the war against tobacco merge with the push to legalize wacky tobaccy. Inhaling more tars than with a cigarette, ~17% have psychotic events with weed. Keep the American people high on weed and what rights that remain will then be stolen away in that haze? Pushing marijuana on the youth is a very bad idea indeed.

Pot is an entry level drug.
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