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Old October 21st, 2010, 08:12 AM   #51
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Jimmy Carter was good about leading groups to go out and paint and fix up poor people's homes - only to have said poor people fuck them back up in a few months time.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 08:58 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman
Jimmy Carter was good about leading groups to go out and paint and fix up poor people's homes - only to have said poor people fuck them back up in a few months time.
I was rather young and impressionable during the Carter administration and he's responsible for my lifetime interest in Alternative Energy. He had some good ideas on energy but he couldn't even convince his home team to follow the coach. Following the Iran hostage taking he lost the ability to lead the nation in my humble opinion. God the economy sucked then not to mention the oil embargo that shut down the nation. It seems every time a weak liberal leader is in charge every puke around the world wants to rub his nose in cat shit.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 09:25 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Zack
I was rather young and impressionable during the Carter administration and he's responsible for my lifetime interest in Alternative Energy. He had some good ideas on energy but he couldn't even convince his home team to follow the coach. Following the Iran hostage taking he lost the ability to lead the nation in my humble opinion. God the economy sucked then not to mention the oil embargo that shut down the nation. It seems every time a weak liberal leader is in charge every puke around the world wants to rub his nose in cat shit.
Jimmy Carter allowed the Iran hostage crisis to totally cripple his presidency.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 09:40 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
I know you think simply raising income taxes will be the panacea for all our woes. Making a simple comparison without taking into consideration ALL of the differences in todays economy vs. yesterday's is a very simple minded thing to do.


Raising income taxes fxashun is one of the very BIG solutions for "all our woes" and is the heart of America's ongoing economic predicament. We can not have a sustained recovery until we address it. The central challenge is not only to rebalance the global economy so that Americans save more and borrow less form the rest of the world. It is to rebalance the American economy so its benefits are shared more widely to America, as they were decades ago. Until this transformation is made, our economy will continue to experience phantom recoveries and speculative bubbles, each more distressing than the one before.



fxashun, WHAT DIFFERENCES IS THEIR TO TAKE ACCOUNT? The point is that there's still a large share of our income going into fewer and fewer hands that don't need and people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet agree. When you have that happening like in the 1928, and in the 1980s it spells disaster like I accurately posted before so read it again.



post #31 and #40

http://www.defendingthetruth.com/deb...ropping-4.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
Unconstitutional. The government should not have the authority to tell a company how to pay their employees.


Well we need to change the law or tax codes back to the was it was before the supreme court changed it. In the famous Michigan case (Dodge vs Ford) the supreme courts ruled that a corporations has to have as its first bases for every business decision, rather that decision will increase the value of the stock holders, and or the value of the company for its owners or generate increase profits. I posted about this before and I remember you agreeing with me because corporation would lay off people and ship jobs overseas for profit and whatnot etc etc etc. But I'm glad to see you agree that capital gains taxes should be increase.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
I've also posted graphs that show corporate tax receipts have dropped to near nil, and nearly all income already comes from the top tier.



Yeah,, and I rebuttal and told you the fact that tax collections would go up if people wages goes up. People can't pay taxes if they can't afford to because the top 10 owns over half of all the income (wealth).



Corporations should pay their fair share, but that of course will create higher prices of more job cuts. Only the Feds can get money out of thin air.


Okay,,, you agree with me that corporations should pay that 35% tax rate good. I don't have to explain the crap you wrote below that then.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
I've always advocated for flat taxes, if the rich get richer, so be it. AS long as it's not illegal, I ain't hatin' on them.


What the hell, what kind of crazy statement is that? well the the fact fxashun is that what's left of the middle class and the working class will get poorer. Do you care about that? and didn't I debunked the whole flat tax theory before? Your statement above tells me that you don't now jack squat about the subject "AS long as it's not illegal", what kind of ignorance is that?



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
Then you won't have any income to tax. If they are just stashing their cash, then they aren't investing it, so it can't be taxed. Rendering your whole premise moot.


Wrong, you don't understand fxashun or I didn't explain it clearly (pick form the two lol) Most rich put their money it in tax shelters (example swiss banks) and Invest it. So my premise isn't "moot" lol. That's not reason for to not raise taxes anyway. That's a silly fxashun and funny at the same time. 'ALL THE MONEY IN AMERICA ARE IN BANKS SO WE CAN'T TAX THEM' LOL.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
Good for them.


Another uneducated answer when I've just gave you FACTS. Come on fxashun, it's not POSSIBLE to spend a million dollars a day. Example, If you Stephen J Hemsley (CEO of United Healthcare) any your making $100 million a year, how do spend $500 hundred thousand dollars, EVERY, BUSINESS, DAY OF THE YEAR? I have not figured that out yet. You have to be running around with a credit card screaming thou stores. Even Tiffanie's, how do you spend $500 hundred thousand dollars A DAY? YOU CAN'T DO IT.



So conservatives say 'OH GIVE MONEY TO RICH PEOPLE THEY STIMULATE THE ECONOMY' NONSENSE, give money to rich people and they put that in swiss bank accounts, bets, waiting for the dividend checks to arrive. Now give money to working people and they spend it, which creates demand which causes entrepreneur to say 'HEY THERE'S SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT TO BUY'. The middle class and working people spend their money almost all of it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
You tax "the rich" at that rate today, with no manufacturing for the uneducated unskilled masses, I doubt very seriously you'll see that kind of growth.


Okay but me any you are for raising tariffs to keep jobs here in America. We talked about this before please stop repeating yourself. The democratic party is for doing something about the subject and has but the republicans are against it. Anyway it will create growth.





Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
Then they should give the government their money. I'm sure it'll take it.

But there is a difference between charity and taxation.

Again, I advocate for a flat tax, with a possible offset for payroll taxes. That everyone is responsible for what happens to the country. When you come to the point that no one pays real taxes for the government, you no longer have a democracy, it's no different than mob rule. We're getting there.

Rich got richer, paid more taxes under Bush - Washington Times

After dipping in the early part of the Bush administration, by 2007 the top quintile of earners - the 20 percent who made the most - paid nearly 70 percent of all the taxes that the federal government collected, according to Congressional Budget Office figures. That includes a staggering 86 percent of the income tax being paid by just the top quintile of earners.

By contrast, the bottom 40 percent on average not only pay no income tax, but they siphon money back from the federal government in the form of the Earned Income Tax Credit, a 35-year-old program designed to offset some of what low-income workers pay in Social Security taxes.



You're advocating to move that up a bit to the top 10% paying even more? Bullshit.


I covered this above.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
Nearly all of those are state and local taxes, not federal. Then they should get a better job.


It's regressive.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 10:00 AM   #55
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Jimmy Carter was not aware that he was being sold down the river in his negtiations by Reagan and Bush. I just love how people never mention the fact that it was a concerted effort by those working to get Reagan and Bush elected, that the hostages were not released during Carter's noble attempts to keep weapons out of the Iranian radicals hands. Of course the contemptuous character of those in the Reagan/Bush camp had no probelm in promising Iran weapons to keep the hostages until the election was over.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 12:16 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fayt87linegod
Raising income taxes fxashun is one of the very BIG solutions for "all our woes" and is the heart of America's ongoing economic predicament. We can not have a sustained recovery until we address it. The central challenge is not only to rebalance the global economy so that Americans save more and borrow less form the rest of the world. It is to rebalance the American economy so its benefits are shared more widely to America, as they were decades ago. Until this transformation is made, our economy will continue to experience phantom recoveries and speculative bubbles, each more distressing than the one before.
Simply raiseing taxes is doing nothing but allowing the government to play Robin Hood. That's not nevessarily doing anything but forcing the rich to "hire" all of the people that can't find jobs. "Raising taxes" won't provide private sector jobs, but it might make for a lot of expensive and nice sidewalks and roads.



Quote:
fxashun, WHAT DIFFERENCES IS THEIR TO TAKE ACCOUNT? The point is that there's still a large share of our income going into fewer and fewer hands that don't need and people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet agree. When you have that happening like in the 1928, and in the 1980s it spells disaster like I accurately posted before so read it again.
How is "our income" going into their hands? It's THEIR income. No one is giving them anything. Income tax TAKES from them what they already earned.



Quote:
Okay,,, you agree with me that corporations should pay that 35% tax rate good. I don't have to explain the crap you wrote below that then.
What you quoted wasn't what I typed. But if corporations pay more taxes, the costs of goods and services will have to increase as well. I repeat, you don't get money from thin air.

I'm not sure how you got what you quoted there.



Quote:
What the hell, what kind of crazy statement is that? well the the fact fxashun is that what's left of the middle class and the working class will get poorer. Do you care about that? and didn't I debunked the whole flat tax theory before? Your statement above tells me that you don't now jack squat about the subject "AS long as it's not illegal", what kind of ignorance is that?
AS long as it's not illegal, is saying that as long as someone makes their money legally, why should I think that they owe more tax than the rest of us.

The crazy statement shows I think that everyone should have a fair stake in the government. There is no reason why the rich, who already bear nearly all of the tax burden, should be shafted to the point where they bear ALL of it.

Kinda bullshit to have a government of the people and for the people if the only "people" that pay for it are the richest minority. That's mob rule epitomized.



Quote:
Wrong, you don't understand fxashun or I didn't explain it clearly (pick form the two lol) Most rich put their money it in tax shelters (example swiss banks) and Invest it. So my premise isn't "moot" lol. That's not reason for to not raise taxes anyway. That's a silly fxashun and funny at the same time. 'ALL THE MONEY IN AMERICA ARE IN BANKS SO WE CAN'T TAX THEM' LOL.
What part of non-deductible flat tax didn't you understand? All income will be monitored. There are no tax shelters. And if they can do that under the current scheme, what's to keep them from hiding it after the taxes are raised?

The same mechanism for finding money applies to both our schemes, I just want mine to be flat.





Quote:
Another uneducated answer when I've just gave you FACTS. Come on fxashun, it's not POSSIBLE to spend a million dollars a day.
Why does someone have to spend a million dolllars a day to be deemed rich. Where did that come from?



Quote:
Example, If you Stephen J Hemsley (CEO of United Healthcare) any your making $100 million a year, how do spend $500 hundred thousand dollars, EVERY, BUSINESS, DAY OF THE YEAR? I have not figured that out yet. You have to be running around with a credit card screaming thou stores. Even Tiffanie's, how do you spend $500 hundred thousand dollars A DAY? YOU CAN'T DO IT.
I Buggati Veyron costs a cool mil. With 100K year in upkeep.

3 mansions scattered throughout the country or world. With staff to keep them. Along with a full compliment of cars at each.

Full wardrobe at each mansion.

A couple ex-wives with kids.

A private fleet of corporate jets and privately contracted pilots. Have you priced a nice Gulfstream lately?



You can manage to spend a lot of money if you try.



Stretch your imagination.



Quote:
So conservatives say 'OH GIVE MONEY TO RICH PEOPLE THEY STIMULATE THE ECONOMY' NONSENSE, give money to rich people and they put that in swiss bank accounts, bets, waiting for the dividend checks to arrive. Now give money to working people and they spend it, which creates demand which causes entrepreneur to say 'HEY THERE'S SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT TO BUY'. The middle class and working people spend their money almost all of it.
I'm not a "conservative". No one should be "given" money.



Quote:
Okay but me any you are for raising tariffs to keep jobs here in America. We talked about this before please stop repeating yourself. The democratic party is for doing something about the subject and has but the republicans are against it. Anyway it will create growth.
We need to do SOMETHING to begin to protect our industries here. Or at least what we have left. I sold a van to a couple of Chinese Nationalists yesterday. And even they agree that the U.S. needs to find a way to get some of their manufacturing back. But they also agrees that if that happens, prices will rise precipitously. We both agreed that pay rates and working conditions in China compared with the U.S. border on slavery. Not that China is alone in that respect. Look at India's clothing industry for example. We can't compete with that, no matter what we do.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 12:17 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtables
Jimmy Carter was not aware that he was being sold down the river in his negtiations by Reagan and Bush. I just love how people never mention the fact that it was a concerted effort by those working to get Reagan and Bush elected, that the hostages were not released during Carter's noble attempts to keep weapons out of the Iranian radicals hands. Of course the contemptuous character of those in the Reagan/Bush camp had no probelm in promising Iran weapons to keep the hostages until the election was over.
Carter had and has the Midas touch but instead of turning to gold it turns to shit.
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 07:14 AM   #58
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Yes, it seems truly good intentioned, honest, selfless people aren't highly regarded or rewarded in politics very often. In many cases, all it got them was a bullet and an early grave. At least Carter has lived a long, fulfilling life.
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 12:43 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
Simply raiseing taxes is doing nothing but allowing the government to play Robin Hood. That's not nevessarily doing anything but forcing the rich to "hire" all of the people that can't find jobs. "Raising taxes" won't provide private sector jobs, but it might make for a lot of expensive and nice sidewalks and roads.


No fxashun cutting taxes robs form the people and gives that money to the people who's already well off and history proved that FACT. You just don't want to understand because of once again your self esteem issue of can't admitting someone like me is right. Just because of the Bush tax cuts people people income has fell FACT. Bush said that tax cuts would create jobs FALSE, millions of our jobs have been shipped overseas FACT. You can read this again in the links I posted below it's FACT. This quote form Joe Biden is great.



Joe Biden

"The people whose average income is $8.3 million a year, and they're gonna get a $350,000 tax break - what are they gonna do with that? That they couldn't do already? But yet, somebody, a family of four, making $100,000, they have two kids in school. They get a $4,100 tax break. It matters to them. It matters. I want this fight," Biden said. "I'm ready for this fight."



post #85

http://www.defendingthetruth.com/pol...ts-rich-9.html



post #31 and #40

http://www.defendingthetruth.com/deb...ropping-4.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
How is "our income" going into their hands? It's THEIR income. No one is giving them anything. Income tax TAKES from them what they already earned.


Your really don't want to understand do you, well if you didn't read what was up there then read it again here.



post #85

http://www.defendingthetruth.com/pol...ts-rich-9.html



post #31 and #40

http://www.defendingthetruth.com/deb...ropping-4.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
What you quoted wasn't what I typed. But if corporations pay more taxes, the costs of goods and services will have to increase as well. I repeat, you don't get money from thin air.

I'm not sure how you got what you quoted there.


So how did we the U.S. do in for four decades fxashun? Like I've been saying before, I rather spend more money buying American made good when I'm making a better wages making that product here in American. But you do believe corp. taxes should be raised so whatever.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
AS long as it's not illegal, is saying that as long as someone makes their money legally, why should I think that they owe more tax than the rest of us.

The crazy statement shows I think that everyone should have a fair stake in the government. There is no reason why the rich, who already bear nearly all of the tax burden, should be shafted to the point where they bear ALL of it.

Kinda bullshit to have a government of the people and for the people if the only "people" that pay for it are the richest minority. That's mob rule epitomized.


That's still a very ignorant answer fxashun. Look here's your logic fxashun example, Slavery was legal in the past but according to you as long it was legal then it's fine. You see how dense your logic is.



And once again you fail to understand that top 1% owns over 23% of all the income in this country and the top 10% owns over half(wealth). THAT THE REASON WHY WE ARE THE MOST UNEQUAL DEVELOP COUNTRY. Remember that tax collection goes up when people make more money DUHHHH. Denmark is a great example. And we have over a 13 TRILLION DEBT, So stop with your 'I always have to be right'crap and admit that you



1. don't understand what the hell your talking about.



2. Care about the few rich more



3. Don't give a damn about the state this county in and that we doing the worst than any other developed country. You don't care about the millions of people who's being screwed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
What part of non-deductible flat tax didn't you understand? All income will be monitored. There are no tax shelters. And if they can do that under the current scheme, what's to keep them from hiding it after the taxes are raised?

The same mechanism for finding money applies to both our schemes, I just want mine to be flat.


It's call cutting tax loopholes duhhh. We've done it before and other counties do it. You know this so stop beating yourself up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
Why does someone have to spend a million dolllars a day to be deemed rich. Where did that come from?



I Buggati Veyron costs a cool mil. With 100K year in upkeep.

3 mansions scattered throughout the country or world. With staff to keep them. Along with a full compliment of cars at each.

Full wardrobe at each mansion.

A couple ex-wives with kids.

A private fleet of corporate jets and privately contracted pilots. Have you priced a nice Gulfstream lately?



You can manage to spend a lot of money if you try.



Stretch your imagination.


Is that helping today NO. There's a limit of cars and boats the rich buys. The point is the middle class and the working class spends. It's call consumer economy and we don't have an consumer economy if people aren't buying.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
I'm not a "conservative". No one should be "given" money.


Well that's a dumb statement. We can only give free money to the rich but when it comes to the middle class and working class that's suffering today because of these tax cuts, NOPE THAT REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH.



http://www.defendingthetruth.com/mon...economics.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun
We need to do SOMETHING to begin to protect our industries here. Or at least what we have left. I sold a van to a couple of Chinese Nationalists yesterday. And even they agree that the U.S. needs to find a way to get some of their manufacturing back. But they also agrees that if that happens, prices will rise precipitously. We both agreed that pay rates and working conditions in China compared with the U.S. border on slavery. Not that China is alone in that respect. Look at India's clothing industry for example. We can't compete with that, no matter what we do.


Okay so your with me for changing our trade polices I got that.
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