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Old June 18th, 2012, 05:49 AM   #21
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The Fed is much more safe than trusting the United States Congress with it. So yes, I much prefer the Fed do this than let Congress screw it up even more that it was.
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Old June 18th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1339989035' post='408103

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1339965906' post='408090']

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1339952286' post='408082']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1339920644' post='408076']

[quote name='Fayt' timestamp='1339907359' post='408069']

Waitingtables, I wouldn't wast my time with these Libertarian Federal Reserve evangelists. No matter what you say or try to explain, they will disagree with you. You can even come to an understanding with them and point out rational solutions and they will still find something to disagree with. You can even agree with 100% of what they're proscribing and they will still accusing you of not understanding. These guys will never understand that their so called experience on this issue is just a new name they call their mistakes.


I've given up on discussing this issue with you. Why? You - unilaterally - declare we agree, and then repeat the teachings you have received from Keynesian college professors.



Unilateral declarations of agreement are horribly dishonest, and here you are doing it again. You and I agreeing on the role of privately controlled central banks is impossible because you have never given me one reason to think you do understand the role of privately owned central banks. You just say "nationalize the Fed," whatever the hell that means, claim an intellectual superiority, and then it's more Keynesian yada yada yada that I've heard dozens of times, and with which I do not agree.





Please don't go back and repost any discussions we've had. Yes we agree on some points, but we've never agreed 100 percent, and you most certainly never have agreed 100 percent with my explanations of the market and political distortions created by privately owned central banks that have a monopoly on creating currency and setting interest rates. Nor have we ever agreed that all attempts to fix the economy are futile without the US government reclaiming its constitutionally delegated power to create and manage currency. In fact, we've always disagree on that point.



So really, for the sake of an honest friendship, I wish you would stop saying you and I agree 100 percent. That is demonstrably false.




Would you support the ability to print currency (or fractional banking) be taken away from private hands and regulated under the purview of the U.S. Department of Treasure? Nationalizing the 12 Fed banks and printing money only when the population grow and when commerce grows. The problem isn't so much fiat money, but the PRIVATE issue of fiat money. The value of the money should be defined only by the government, but we should not go back to the gold backed currency. After we have taken that power back from the privately own banks, we put currency back into the economy by investing in infrastructure, schools, healthcare, social programs and etc. This is make us a more prosperous country with an healthy economy to boot.



What do you disagree with?

[/quote]



If you really mean what you wrote, and if you think that without doing all of the above FIRST that any and every "solution" is built upon quicksand, and thus is pure partisan politics and completely pointless, we're in agreement.



If you think taking the power to create currency and set interest rates away from the private world bankers is the first step, then, it's the first time you've ever agreed with me on that point .... and, I'm glad you've seen the light on this.

[/quote]



Yes, but would you support the president to do nothing and just let the Bush tax cuts expire I think, December of this year?

[/quote]



See, you lied. You're deceptively trying to get me to agree with something we supposedly just "agreed" would be pointless as long as world bankers in general and the Fed in specific control the currency and interest rates.



My agreeing with that is not happening. And, you and I do not agree 100 percent on what needs to be done to remedy our economic ills ... like I said to begin with.

[/quote]



See, there you go again. You always seem to find a way to just piss me off. You care less about our American Constitution and care even less for the well being of the American people. Our government is suppose to protect and defend us from enemies foreign and domestic. However yet, the enemies of our economy are people who are forcing us to race to the bottom in a consumer driven economy. National Security requires that we have a strong economy and we are right now having our backs broken by republicans while you still sit here quietly sitting on your hand telling me that you still support nothing that will metaphorically fix our backs.



You know a lot about the Fed GREAT! Me too. However what's the point if you still economically and Constitutionally stupid (to quote Bill Clinton)
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
See, there you go again. You always seem to find a way to just piss me off. You care less about our American Constitution and care even less for the well being of the American people. Our government is suppose to protect and defend us from enemies foreign and domestic. However yet, the enemies of our economy are people who are forcing us to race to the bottom in a consumer driven economy. National Security requires that we have a strong economy and we are right now having our backs broken by republicans while you still sit here quietly sitting on your hand telling me that you still support nothing that will metaphorically fix our backs.



You know a lot about the Fed GREAT! Me too. However what's the point if you still economically and Constitutionally stupid (to quote Bill Clinton)


Don't lecture me about respecting the Constitution. Don't make me quote the powers delegated to Congress. Don't make me point out that the Federal Reserve Act is unconstitutional. Don't even say that if it was it would have been challenged by now, because that's wrong.



You like to distill everything down to D vs. R, and you think there's no problem that cannot be solved by adjusting taxation, and federal spending. Fine. Like I said earlier, like I've said 100 times, we don't agree. Let me say it again: We Don't Agree. One more time: WE DON'T AGREE, and it's a damned dishonest debate tactic to unilaterally declare that we DO agree 100 percent on the ROOT CAUSE of booms and busts and bubbles and recessions and recoveries because WE DON'T AGREE on the root cause, and WE DON'T AGREE that adjusting taxation and increasing spending will "fix" things, or increase the well-being of Americans without addressing the root cause.



Once more, and forever until one of us changes our mind: WE DON'T AGREE ON THE ROOT CAUSE, THE PRIMARY CAUSE, THE CAUSE WHICH CAUSES ALL OTHER ECONOMIC PROBLEMS, which is, IN MY OPINION, the worldwide system of private, fractional banking and bankers, OF WHICH our Federal Reserve System is a part.



Now, if you want to get pissed off about that, great. Your choice, though it seems like an incredibly immature choice. I'm not pissed off even though just posts ago you claimed we agree 100 percent. Relax. But, for insurance, one more time:



We don't agree. We both love our country, but we don't agree how to fix it.



Thanks.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:21 AM   #24
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The thing is, you are not going to change this worldwide system and nothing you say or do is going to change that. We have to focus on what we can actually change right now because without the political will to work together on the issue of the fractional reserve banking that troubles you so much, it will never ever even be discussed. Other than in the circles you run in.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #25
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Well, now, that may be true. Yes, this charade of a banking system has been in place in America since 1913. And elsewhere for centuries. It makes money as it desires, out of thin air, only the effort exerted by fingers on a keyboard. And we accept that. It is entrenched. And more importantly, it is powerful, so powerful that it can bring down governments, murder individuals, send highly weaponized planes into skyscraping buildings with impugnity, create the illusion that planes hit large government buildings when in fact they do not, establish the practical fact of plane crashes in sparcely populated areas, when really they do not, knowing that the few people who might even be around to see such a calamity find themselves glued to their TV's watching planes crash into those Skyscraping buildings. These banking interests are so powerful that they can even arrange for the disappearance of innocent private plane passengers, never to be seen again. And it can buy off the press so that even the free press becomes complicite in all of its diabolical endeavors.



Yes, you are right, there really may not be much that we can do about this worldwide banking system. But we can beware of it. And we can take steps to defend ourselves from it. And we can vote for individuals to go to Washington who have not yet been bought by that system. But of course, when that happens, then those newly elected individuals, who do not succumb, take the large chance of dissappearing, or finding sudden mortal injury themselves.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #26
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WTF Radicalcentrist, what are you talking about?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by waitingtables View Post
The thing is, you are not going to change this worldwide system and nothing you say or do is going to change that. We have to focus on what we can actually change right now because without the political will to work together on the issue of the fractional reserve banking that troubles you so much, it will never ever even be discussed. Other than in the circles you run in.


You see, having an economic discussion with libertarians is like talking an cult member out of drinking the Kool-Aid.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtables' timestamp='1340108507' post='408258

The thing is, you are not going to change this worldwide system and nothing you say or do is going to change that. We have to focus on what we can actually change right now because without the political will to work together on the issue of the fractional reserve banking that troubles you so much, it will never ever even be discussed. Other than in the circles you run in.


You see, having an economic discussion with libertarians is like talking an cult member out of drinking the Kool-Aid.


Oh yeah. Like what happened to the people in Jonestown, Guyana many years ago.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:16 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1340054059' post='408151
See, there you go again. You always seem to find a way to just piss me off. You care less about our American Constitution and care even less for the well being of the American people. Our government is suppose to protect and defend us from enemies foreign and domestic. However yet, the enemies of our economy are people who are forcing us to race to the bottom in a consumer driven economy. National Security requires that we have a strong economy and we are right now having our backs broken by republicans while you still sit here quietly sitting on your hand telling me that you still support nothing that will metaphorically fix our backs.



You know a lot about the Fed GREAT! Me too. However what's the point if you still economically and Constitutionally stupid (to quote Bill Clinton)


Don't lecture me about respecting the Constitution. Don't make me quote the powers delegated to Congress. Don't make me point out that the Federal Reserve Act is unconstitutional. Don't even say that if it was it would have been challenged by now, because that's wrong.



You like to distill everything down to D vs. R, and you think there's no problem that cannot be solved by adjusting taxation, and federal spending. Fine. Like I said earlier, like I've said 100 times, we don't agree. Let me say it again: We Don't Agree. One more time: WE DON'T AGREE, and it's a damned dishonest debate tactic to unilaterally declare that we DO agree 100 percent on the ROOT CAUSE of booms and busts and bubbles and recessions and recoveries because WE DON'T AGREE on the root cause, and WE DON'T AGREE that adjusting taxation and increasing spending will "fix" things, or increase the well-being of Americans without addressing the root cause.



Once more, and forever until one of us changes our mind: WE DON'T AGREE ON THE ROOT CAUSE, THE PRIMARY CAUSE, THE CAUSE WHICH CAUSES ALL OTHER ECONOMIC PROBLEMS, which is, IN MY OPINION, the worldwide system of private, fractional banking and bankers, OF WHICH our Federal Reserve System is a part.



Now, if you want to get pissed off about that, great. Your choice, though it seems like an incredibly immature choice. I'm not pissed off even though just posts ago you claimed we agree 100 percent. Relax. But, for insurance, one more time:



We don't agree. We both love our country, but we don't agree how to fix it.



Thanks.


How in the world you're going to preach to me in every other sentence about how we both disagree on the "root cause" if you later say it in the same paragraph that it's just your "OPINION". See, this is how I know you don't know what the heck you're talking about. I don't deal with opinions, I DEAL WITH FACTS. And that simple fact is that we have gone for almost 50 years without a major banking crisis in this country while the Federal reserve was in place until the 1980s. We NEVER have gone over a trillion dollars in debt while the Fed was in place until the 1980s. You want to stop boom and busts Paul then raise the top marginal (and capital gains) over 50% and bring back the banking regulators (example Glass Steagall). If we can't get anything done with the Fed 1st, then we can do other important things that will in the mean time look out for the General Welfare of the American people.



People who which you care less about who can starve, rot, and die for all you care if anything isn't done about the freaking Fed first. You don't care about the constitution, you don't care about the American people and you don't care for this country.



I just told you the truth NOW DEAL WITH IT.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by H80W View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt' timestamp='1340139876' post='408295

[quote name='waitingtables' timestamp='1340108507' post='408258']

The thing is, you are not going to change this worldwide system and nothing you say or do is going to change that. We have to focus on what we can actually change right now because without the political will to work together on the issue of the fractional reserve banking that troubles you so much, it will never ever even be discussed. Other than in the circles you run in.


You see, having an economic discussion with libertarians is like talking an cult member out of drinking the Kool-Aid.


Oh yeah. Like what happened to the people in Jonestown, Guyana many years ago.

[/quote]



Exactly, now if they were to told you that this is the best beer you ever will taste, is it worth being dead over H80W?
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