Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Money and Finance > Debt


Thanks Tree50Thanks
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 19th, 2013, 04:50 PM   #41
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 33,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The Fed isn't a government entity. Part of the Fed's defense in fighting Bloomberg's FOIA request was exactly: The Fed isn't a government agency.

After a three-year battle, Bloomberg "won," and "discovered" that the Fed had made $7.7 trillion in loans, money it created of course.

However, the whole thing might have been a sham. The GAO's July 2011 audit of the Fed revealed Fed loans totalling $16 trillion.
It is worse than I thought the last information I had it was 9.7 Trillion in new money.

no wonder the dollar is ony worth 50 Cents of the 2008 Dollar

What people don't understand is that this 14,000 dow is really only the value of a 7000 dow of 2008
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 04:53 PM   #42
Fayt Storm ON [OFF]
 
Fayt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Not in MD
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
You cherry picked to respond Fayt. You didn't address your role as a slave to make good the full faith and credit of the United States.

What's the point of having gold? You tell me why all the central banks hold gold, OK? Tell me why foreign nations have gold deposited with the New York Federal Reserve. Tell me this: Why is the US government's gold shown as an asset on the Federal Reserve's balance sheet? I mean, hell, it's just gold. Why does anyone make any kind of a big deal over it????

Why not limit how much our currency can be inflated by law? I posted you the reserve requirements in my last post. That's the law limiting how much the currency can be inflated, and the inflation of the currency by our government's debts pales indeed compared to the amount bankers and the creators of derivatives can inflate the currency. See, here's the plan.

Keep the people occupied, with their eyes off the banking and investment community. Keep them thinking, believing, it's the D's or R's fault, the D's or R's are spending/not spending or taxing/not taxing enough. Those damned Ds or Rs, depending on what side you're on.

How nice. We haven't had a depression since 1971. We had a $398 billion national debt in 1971. We were worried that unemployment, and this is a true unemployment figure as just about every WAS looking for a job, peaked at 6.1 percent.

Now, 42 years later, our national debt has increased more than 40 times to $16,000,000,000,000-plus. And the currency supply has been inflated far, far beyond population growth.



And this currency inflation has not been limited to the US.



But we haven't had a depression!!!!

Anyway, maybe you can clear up why nations and banks continue to hold gold, and why even the silver in our coins has been removed.
That's like asking why diamonds are such a big deal. Gold is no more a "big deal" than commodities like wheat, oranges, and gasoline. It's profitable because there's demand for it. It's also a moot point because if it was such a "big deal" then countries would have made their currency glued to gold. My argument is not that we should stop mining or manufacturing valuable resources, it's that we shouldn't go back to having our currency backed by gold. And if I'm right, Ron Paul once believed the same thing.

Yes, we can inflate our currency by law which I believe is also in the constitution. The federal reserve is not to blame for our $16 trillion dollar debt no more than the tree that paper is made out of...or whatever dollars are made out of. The problem lies with our politicians. Specifically republicans with their strategy to starve the government of revenue (Starve The Beast) and Two Santa Clause strategy. All which have been played out in the last 30 years when Reagan 1st implemented the policies.

So stop blaming the Fed. Although I like to see it nationalize, I don't put blame on the federal reserve for our current debt. A debt which is not something to worry about because WE own our own currency. When there's a government debt, it's transfer to either the private sector or trade. We mostly own OUR OWN DEBT.

Fayt is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #43
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 33,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
That's like asking why diamonds are such a big deal. Gold is no more a "big deal" than commodities like wheat, oranges, and gasoline. It's profitable because there's demand for it. It's also a moot point because if it was such a "big deal" then countries would have made their currency glued to gold. My argument is not that we should stop mining or manufacturing valuable resources, it's that we should go back to having our currency backed by gold. And if I'm right, Ron Paul once believed the same thing.

Yes, we can inflate our currency by law which I believe is also in the constitution. The federal reserve is not to blame for our $16 trillion dollar debt no more than the tree that paper is made out of...or whatever dollars are made out of. The problem lies with our politicians. Specifically republicans with their strategy to starve the government of revenue (Starve The Beast) and Two Santa Clause strategy. All which have been played out in the last 30 years when Reagan 1st implemented the policies.

So stop blaming the Fed. Although I like to see it nationalize, I don't put blame on the federal reserve for our current debt. A debt which is not something to worry about because WE own our own currency. When there's a government debt, it's transfer to either the private sector or trade. We mostly own OUR OWN DEBT.

the Debt is 110% of GDP..

2008 it was 80% of GDP..


which is better being 80% of income in Debt or 110%of your income in debt?
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #44
Commie Exposer
 
Jimmyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 38,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
That's like asking why diamonds are such a big deal. Gold is no more a "big deal" than commodities like wheat, oranges, and gasoline. It's profitable because there's demand for it. It's also a moot point because if it was such a "big deal" then countries would have made their currency glued to gold. My argument is not that we should stop mining or manufacturing valuable resources, it's that we shouldn't go back to having our currency backed by gold. And if I'm right, Ron Paul once believed the same thing.

Yes, we can inflate our currency by law which I believe is also in the constitution. The federal reserve is not to blame for our $16 trillion dollar debt no more than the tree that paper is made out of...or whatever dollars are made out of. The problem lies with our politicians. Specifically republicans with their strategy to starve the government of revenue (Starve The Beast) and Two Santa Clause strategy. All which have been played out in the last 30 years when Reagan 1st implemented the policies.

So stop blaming the Fed. Although I like to see it nationalize, I don't put blame on the federal reserve for our current debt. A debt which is not something to worry about because WE own our own currency. When there's a government debt, it's transfer to either the private sector or trade. We mostly own OUR OWN DEBT.


Gold is a big deal. How can anyone compare gold to wheat and oranges? Can you plant gold and grow it? Can you control how much gold is grown each year? It is profitable because of its scarcity. You have not made one credible argument why our money should not be tied to gold.

The Constitution states nothing about inflating our money. That would have been the dumbest thing the creators of the Constitution would have ever heard.

The problem does not lie with Republicans. Are these the same Republicans you said caused Iceland to go into a recession?

You have no idea what Starve the Beast and Two Santa Clause means. You cannot demonstrate one negative economic thing that Reagan did. This is from that moron Thom Hartmann.

Explain exactly how we own our own debt? I want to hear this, and China is really anxious to hear this as well. I think Beijing is going to throw you a party.

Really, some random blog is your source. How close to the bottom of the barrel did your have to look to find your source, Sober Look.
Jimmyb is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 07:19 PM   #45
Commie Exposer
 
Jimmyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 38,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
the Debt is 110% of GDP..

2008 it was 80% of GDP..


which is better being 80% of income in Debt or 110%of your income in debt?
Actually the debt to GDP when Bush left office was 69%. And as an aside, other than FDR, Obama is the only president who has spent 24% of GDP.
Thanks from TNVolunteer73
Jimmyb is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 53,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
That's like asking why diamonds are such a big deal. Gold is no more a "big deal" than commodities like wheat, oranges, and gasoline. It's profitable because there's demand for it. It's also a moot point because if it was such a "big deal" then countries would have made their currency glued to gold. My argument is not that we should stop mining or manufacturing valuable resources, it's that we shouldn't go back to having our currency backed by gold. And if I'm right, Ron Paul once believed the same thing.
No, it's not the same thing, and that didn't answer my question. You won't think here. You won't see that bankers in this country and bankers worldwide convinced every nation that they, not market forces, should be in control of the economy.

When bankers are in control of the currency supply and interest rates, when they have the power, unrestrained by any outside force such as the quantity of gold, they are in control. When money is created through loans, but the money to pay the interest on the loans is not created, the power to pick winners and losers rests in the hands of the creators of the loans, the creators of the money.

Quote:
Yes, we can inflate our currency by law which I believe is also in the constitution.
Please go from "I believe" to quoting the Constitution.

Quote:
The federal reserve is not to blame for our $16 trillion dollar debt no more than the tree that paper is made out of...or whatever dollars are made out of. The problem lies with our politicians.
As I said, the debt of the government is a very small part of overall debt owed by companies and citizens.

Quote:
Specifically republicans with their strategy to starve the government of revenue (Starve The Beast) and Two Santa Clause strategy. All which have been played out in the last 30 years when Reagan 1st implemented the policies.
Here, you react exactly as the bankers want you to react. You misplace blame. Rather than see the real villains, the ones who really control the economy, who engineer booms and busts, you blame your fellow citizens, who in turn, blame you.

The derivative market, enabled by fractional banking, is more than $400 trillion in debt obligations, in other words, promises to pay someone sometime in the future. A $16 trillion national debt, more promises to pay someone sometime in the future, t is four percent of the overall debt. It's pennies on a dollar.

Quote:
So stop blaming the Fed.
That's 180 degrees wrong. You need to start blaming those who really are the masters of the economy, the masters of debt, the masters of currency creation, your masters and mine.

Quote:
Although I like to see it nationalize, I don't put blame on the federal reserve for our current debt.
Bankers are the ones who make loans, and create currency, and create debt without creating the currency to repay the loans plus interest.

Quote:
A debt which is not something to worry about because WE own our own currency.
We do not own our own currency. All currency is debt. All currency is a promise to pay someone sometime in the future. We outsource the power to create currency. Every nation in the world has done the same.

Quote:
When there's a government debt, it's transfer to either the private sector or trade. We mostly own OUR OWN DEBT.
Well, you're 180 degrees off ... again. Our debt owns us.

Your graph is meaningless.
Thanks from Jimmyb

Last edited by imaginethat; March 19th, 2013 at 09:49 PM.
imaginethat is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 09:50 PM   #47
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 33,235
Originally Posted by Fayt
That's like asking why diamonds are such a big deal. Gold is no more a "big deal" than commodities like wheat, oranges, and gasoline. It's profitable because there's demand for it. It's also a moot point because if it was such a "big deal" then countries would have made their currency glued to gold. My argument is not that we should stop mining or manufacturing valuable resources, it's that we shouldn't go back to having our currency backed by gold. And if I'm right, Ron Paul once believed the same thing.


Okay. Then where does your "Fayt" Currency get its value?

If you Currency Stands on nothing it can fall and become worthless for any reason.

If it is backed by Gold/silver or other hard currency the value may fluctuate but it will never become worthless.. It may become Worth less or worth more.. not not worthless.
Thanks from imaginethat

Last edited by pensacola_niceman; March 20th, 2013 at 03:10 AM.
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 53,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
Originally Posted by Fayt
That's like asking why diamonds are such a big deal. Gold is no more a "big deal" than commodities like wheat, oranges, and gasoline. It's profitable because there's demand for it. It's also a moot point because if it was such a "big deal" then countries would have made their currency glued to gold. My argument is not that we should stop mining or manufacturing valuable resources, it's that we shouldn't go back to having our currency backed by gold. And if I'm right, Ron Paul once believed the same thing.


Okay. Then where does your "Fiat" Currency get its value?

If you Currency Stands on nothing it can fall for any reason.
Another question Fayt failed to answer: What is the meaning of the full faith and credit of the United States?
imaginethat is offline  
Old March 19th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #49
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 33,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Another question Fayt failed to answer: What is the meaning of the full faith and credit of the United States?
She fails to answer anything that if she answers distroy's her false preception of the real world.

She is young, lives at home, and thinks that if the world goes to heck in a handbasket the government will take care of her.

She does not have an understanding of history like the Armenians, Jews, Ukranians found out in the Turkish Holocost, Holocost of Hitler's final solution, and the Holodomor.
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old March 20th, 2013, 02:43 PM   #50
Fayt Storm ON [OFF]
 
Fayt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Not in MD
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
No, it's not the same thing, and that didn't answer my question. You won't think here. You won't see that bankers in this country and bankers worldwide convinced every nation that they, not market forces, should be in control of the economy.

When bankers are in control of the currency supply and interest rates, when they have the power, unrestrained by any outside force such as the quantity of gold, they are in control. When money is created through loans, but the money to pay the interest on the loans is not created, the power to pick winners and losers rests in the hands of the creators of the loans, the creators of the money.
No I think I answered your bloody question. It's you who's refusing to acknowledge my answer. You just went into another rant about how bad private ownership of the banking system is and no 1 here is disagreeing about that. I've said a thousand times that we should give that power to the federal government therefor un-privatizing the utility.

And once again our dollar being restrained by a metal will not prevent economic problems. If anything it worsen it, especially if every country doesn't do the same by backing their currency by the precious metal. f


Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Please go from "I believe" to quoting the Constitution.
Article 1, Section 8

Clause 5. To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;



Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
As I said, the debt of the government is a very small part of overall debt owed by companies and citizens.
And so what, we mostly owe our own debt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Here, you react exactly as the bankers want you to react. You misplace blame. Rather than see the real villains, the ones who really control the economy, who engineer booms and busts, you blame your fellow citizens, who in turn, blame you. The derivative market, enabled by fractional banking, is more than $400 trillion in debt obligations, in other words, promises to pay someone sometime in the future. A $16 trillion national debt, more promises to pay someone sometime in the future, t is four percent of the overall debt. It's pennies on a dollar.
No it wasn't enabled by fractional banking imaginethat, stop changing history. It was enable to deregulation. Deregulation that I'm happy to blame both democrats and republicans for enabling. The gold standard wouldn't have prevented theses recessions and depressions that arrives from a bubble economy. You regulate the banking system again like how we went over 50 years without a major banking crisis after FDR put into place regulations like Glass Stegall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
That's 180 degrees wrong. You need to start blaming those who really are the masters of the economy, the masters of debt, the masters of currency creation, your masters and mine.
I blame them for what they deserve to be blamed for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Bankers are the ones who make loans, and create currency, and create debt without creating the currency to repay the loans plus interest.
You mine as well blame the trees for our debt. Again, it's polices put into place deliberately by corrupt politicians to purposely drive up our national debt. We never been over a trillion dollars in debt until Reagan. All the presidents debt combined from George Washington to Jimmy Carter, we never had a trillion dollar debt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
We do not own our own currency. All currency is debt. All currency is a promise to pay someone sometime in the future. We outsource the power to create currency. Every nation in the world has done the same.
We didn't outsource the power to create currency we can do so easily and the constitution gives us that power. And that power is to mint coin. And about the private printing of fiat money, we should nationalize that power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Well, you're 180 degrees off ... again. Our debt owns us.

Your graph is meaningless.
What the graph shows is that we have always had a debt. And when there's a surplus in the public sector (government) there's a deficit in the private sector. Most of our debt is owned by the U.S.. And because we have the power to create our own currency we can wipe out that debt easily. The political will is the hard part. However if we got rid of the notion that money is political speech and corporations are essentially people, the hesitant political will, wouldn't be so much of a problem.
Fayt is offline  
Closed Thread

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Money and Finance > Debt

Tags
disagreement, imaginethat, modern, monetary, theory



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the monetary value of work? XanderCrews Economics 0 December 10th, 2012 05:13 PM
$250 million for abstinence ed fuels disagreement CNN Current Events 6 April 1st, 2010 10:58 AM
King: Clashes in Iran, disagreement in U.S. CNN Current Events 1 June 22nd, 2009 05:27 AM
Ron Paul: 'Monetary system is fraudulent' CNN Current Events 3 October 24th, 2008 10:24 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.