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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
No I think I answered your bloody question. It's you who's refusing to acknowledge my answer. You just went into another rant about how bad private ownership of the banking system is and no 1 here is disagreeing about that. I've said a thousand times that we should give that power to the federal government therefor un-privatizing the utility.

And once again our dollar being restrained by a metal will not prevent economic problems. If anything it worsen it, especially if every country doesn't do the same by backing their currency by the precious metal. f




Article 1, Section 8

Clause 5. To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;





And so what, we mostly owe our own debt.




No it wasn't enabled by fractional banking imaginethat, stop changing history. It was enable to deregulation. Deregulation that I'm happy to blame both democrats and republicans for enabling. The gold standard wouldn't have prevented theses recessions and depressions that arrives from a bubble economy. You regulate the banking system again like how we went over 50 years without a major banking crisis after FDR put into place regulations like Glass Stegall.



I blame them for what they deserve to be blamed for.



You mine as well blame the trees for our debt. Again, it's polices put into place deliberately by corrupt politicians to purposely drive up our national debt. We never been over a trillion dollars in debt until Reagan. All the presidents debt combined from George Washington to Jimmy Carter, we never had a trillion dollar debt.



We didn't outsource the power to create currency we can do so easily and the constitution gives us that power. And that power is to mint coin. And about the private printing of fiat money, we should nationalize that power.



What the graph shows is that we have always had a debt. And when there's a surplus in the public sector (government) there's a deficit in the private sector. Most of our debt is owned by the U.S.. And because we have the power to create our own currency we can wipe out that debt easily. The political will is the hard part. However if we got rid of the notion that money is political speech and corporations are essentially people, the hesitant political will, wouldn't be so much of a problem.
I can't wait till this thread has run a week.

You refuse to look at the big picture. You're not saying anything new, nor am I. With every post you illustrate what you don't know and won't learn. And your only partially comprehensible posts are failing completely to change my mind.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
I can't wait till this thread has run a week.

You refuse to look at the big picture. You're not saying anything new, nor am I. With every post you illustrate what you don't know and won't learn. And your only partially comprehensible posts are failing completely to change my mind.
You've vaguely giving your opinion for why we should return to having our currency backed by gold and the examples you did give I refuted. I yet to see a rebuttal. What you talked about most was your issues with the federal reserves which for the tenth time I told you that I agree and that we should nationalize the federal reserves.

You probably will say 'OH BUT WE SHOULD COMPLETELY GET RID OF IT'. Well if your problem is the private printing of fiat money, why completely get rid of the fed if all that's needed is nationalization? And if we completely get rid of the fed, what will you replace it with? We don't want to end up like Greece, a country without the luxury of owning its own currency. What do you advocate for? A 1 world currency?

If debt is your only issue with the fed then the ability of a country owning it's own currency should negate that issue. Why? because we can pay off our entier debt when ever we want. We have an unlimited supply of dollars (if nationalized) and coins because WE own our own money.

That's the magic of modern monetary policy.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #53
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Quote:
Article 1, Section 8

Clause 5. To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
This is the type of deficiencies that crop up from attempting to make a constitutional argument based entirely on what can be found on the internet.

The Constitution explicitly states that our currency will be based on either gold or silver. The Constitution only recognizes gold and silver as a form for repayment of debts and as a basis for borrowing.

Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

This makes your statement a fabrication.

Quote:
We didn't outsource the power to create currency we can do so easily and the constitution gives us that power. And that power is to mint coin. And about the private printing of fiat money, we should nationalize that power.
Neither the Coinage Act of 1792 or did the Constitution allow the random creation of currency. And there was no provision to create fiat money. Of course we should nationalize the banks, then we could watch as trillions and trillions of dollars leave the U.S. for foreign banks.

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And so what, we mostly owe our own debt.
Our debt is $16.739 trillion. Of that, $11.888 trillion is owned by the public, and of the public, $5.6 trillion is owned by foreign countries. Only the $4.861 trillion that is left is owned by intergovernmental agencies, thus making your statement a fabrication.

Quote:
No it wasn't enabled by fractional banking imaginethat, stop changing history. It was enable to deregulation. Deregulation that I'm happy to blame both democrats and republicans for enabling. The gold standard wouldn't have prevented theses recessions and depressions that arrives from a bubble economy. You regulate the banking system again like how we went over 50 years without a major banking crisis after FDR put into place regulations like Glass Stegall.
To make this statement, you have to ignore the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s. The Great Depression happened while the gold standard was suspended, thus making your statement a fabrication.

Quote:
What the graph shows is that we have always had a debt. And when there's a surplus in the public sector (government) there's a deficit in the private sector. Most of our debt is owned by the U.S.. And because we have the power to create our own currency we can wipe out that debt easily. The political will is the hard part. However if we got rid of the notion that money is political speech and corporations are essentially people, the hesitant political will, wouldn't be so much of a problem.
There have been only two surpluses in modern history in the public sector, and the private sector debt has no relationship to the public sector debt, there is no causal relationship. No court has ever ruled that corporations are people.

We cannot wipe out the debt by just printing $16.7 trillion in dollars or creating trillion dollar coins. That would cause instant hyperinflation and ruin the U.S. dollar.
Thanks from imaginethat

Last edited by Jimmyb; March 20th, 2013 at 08:06 PM.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
You've vaguely giving your opinion for why we should return to having our currency backed by gold and the examples you did give I refuted. I yet to see a rebuttal. What you talked about most was your issues with the federal reserves which for the tenth time I told you that I agree and that we should nationalize the federal reserves.

You probably will say 'OH BUT WE SHOULD COMPLETELY GET RID OF IT'. Well if your problem is the private printing of fiat money, why completely get rid of the fed if all that's needed is nationalization? And if we completely get rid of the fed, what will you replace it with? We don't want to end up like Greece, a country without the luxury of owning its own currency. What do you advocate for? A 1 world currency?

If debt is your only issue with the fed then the ability of a country owning it's own currency should negate that issue. Why? because we can pay off our entier debt when ever we want. We have an unlimited supply of dollars (if nationalized) and coins because WE own our own money.

That's the magic of modern monetary policy.
It is hard to seek a rebuttal when everything you have posted has been proven to be fabricated. It is a mystery why you seek a rebuttal. In your disjointed and disassociated posts, you have not made an argument. I would advise you go back and address every single fabrication you have been caught making.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 05:05 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
You've vaguely giving your opinion for why we should return to having our currency backed by gold and the examples you did give I refuted. I yet to see a rebuttal. What you talked about most was your issues with the federal reserves which for the tenth time I told you that I agree and that we should nationalize the federal reserves.

You probably will say 'OH BUT WE SHOULD COMPLETELY GET RID OF IT'. Well if your problem is the private printing of fiat money, why completely get rid of the fed if all that's needed is nationalization? And if we completely get rid of the fed, what will you replace it with? We don't want to end up like Greece, a country without the luxury of owning its own currency. What do you advocate for? A 1 world currency?

If debt is your only issue with the fed then the ability of a country owning it's own currency should negate that issue. Why? because we can pay off our entier debt when ever we want. We have an unlimited supply of dollars (if nationalized) and coins because WE own our own money.

That's the magic of modern monetary policy.
You've vaguely understood what I've said, You cannot dissect this issue. Gold, fiat money, debt, fractional banking, the Federal Reserve System, the federal income tax,and feckless, self-serving politicians are all arms and legs of the same beast.

Once more: What is the meaning of the full faith and credit of the United States?
Thanks from Jimmyb
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Old March 20th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #56
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The Secret of Oz: Solutions For a Broken Economy

What's going on with the world's economy? Foreclosures are on the rise, unemployment is skyrocketing and this may only be the beginning. Is it possible that solutions to the world's economic problems were embedded in one of the most beloved children's stories of all time, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz?" The yellow brick, the Emerald City of Oz, Dorothy's silver slippers (changed to ruby slippers for the movie version) all powerful symbols of author L. Frank Baum's belief that the people, not the big banks, should control the quantity of a nation's money.

The Secret of Oz (The Federal Reserve) - YouTube
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:14 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
It is hard to seek a rebuttal when everything you have posted has been proven to be fabricated. It is a mystery why you seek a rebuttal. In your disjointed and disassociated posts, you have not made an argument. I would advise you go back and address every single fabrication you have been caught making.
Coming from a republican shield. Go back to the blaze.com
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:20 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
You've vaguely understood what I've said, You cannot dissect this issue. Gold, fiat money, debt, fractional banking, the Federal Reserve System, the federal income tax,and feckless, self-serving politicians are all arms and legs of the same beast.

Once more: What is the meaning of the full faith and credit of the United States?
I answered your question imaginethat, why you keep asking me to answer it again? We as human (specially Americans) decided what is money and its value. We think the dollar is valuable enough that we're willing to work hard for it to hold it in our pockets as a liquid assets, spending it, and invest it. Foreigners are still willing to buy our bonds because of our high dollar rating. They trusting it and we trusting make puts the dollar value in full faith. Hence the full faith and credit of the U.S. dollar.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #59
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Coming from a republican shield. Go back to the blaze.com
I will take the Republican Shield as a compliment since you are clueless of what it means. It was a fierce defense shield for the Roman army. But I doubt that The Google told you that.

That's a very strong rebuttal. One of the best I have ever seen. What is funny is I don't listen to talk radio or TV, don't use the internet to debate, and you, who are defined by Google, tell me to go back to The Blaze.

Can't you dispute the fabrications I pointed out you made with the Google? Do you know how many unanswered questions you have just on this short thread? The Blaze, really.

Last edited by Jimmyb; March 20th, 2013 at 07:18 PM.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 07:08 PM   #60
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I answered your question imaginethat, why you keep asking me to answer it again? We as human (specially Americans) decided what is money and its value. We think the dollar is valuable enough that we're willing to work hard for it to hold it in our pockets as a liquid assets, spending it, and invest it. Foreigners are still willing to buy our bonds because of our high dollar rating. They trusting it and we trusting make puts the dollar value in full faith. Hence the full faith and credit of the U.S. dollar.
How are the foreigners buying our bonds when you said we owned all our debt? Seems like you are all over the map.

You still have not answered IT's question about the meaning of "full faith and credit." I have been anticipating this answer. But if you where educated on the Constitution, you would know that the phase comes from Article IV, Section 1. and has zero to do with the dollar.

There is no full faith and credit for the dollar. It is just an expression of using the taxing authority to repay debts, and that does not mean borrowing to repay debts.

Last edited by Jimmyb; March 20th, 2013 at 09:34 PM.
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