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Old March 16th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #1
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Imaginethat's Modern Monetary Theory Disagreement

This is an attempt to get imaginethat to agree with Fayt and liberals in general about the subject highlighted. All libertarians/conservatives invited of course. However, I'm mainly focus on responding to Imaginethat so sorry if I can't respond to everyone's posts. This thread will only last a week. If I can't get imaginethat to agree with me before next Saturday, then this thread will be closed and the next thread will begin. This weeks thread, Debt, Fiat money, gold standard.

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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Taxes - they should cover expenditures. Do you agree with that?

Unions - they once served a good purpose and still can, but too often they become onerous in their own right, self-serving political arms, and dull a company's competitive edge.

Deregulation? Only a person who's always been an employee and who has never had to deal with government regulations thinks, knee-jerk, that deregulation is, in all cases, a bad idea.

Monopolies are, in general, a bad idea.


I disagree with you about fiat money. I see no reason why a gold standard can't work.

I disagree with Keynesian economic theory in general.

I disagree with the way money is created in a fiat money system: through debt.


I disagree with you about "stimulating the economy" through government going deeper into debt.

I disagree with you on using the tax code to "equalize" people's standard of living.

I disagree that police, fire, public schools, and the armed forces are "socialist."

I disagree with you on the latest round of "infrastructure spending." It won't have any long-lasting positive effect.

I disagree with you on the primary cause of our economic problems. I say it's the Fed, and that as long as it and the worldwide banking cartel are in power everything done to "fix" the economy is pointless.

I disagree with you that the US is a terrible country.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Modern Monetary Economics brings us into the 20th, 21th century of how a developed country allocates scarce resources and takes care of its citizens. Monetary economics is just the simple reality that we're not on the Gold Standard anymore and I'm arguing that that's a good thing. Before President Richard Nixon officially ended the Gold Standard in 1971 the U.S. was constrained in the number of dollars it could print by the amount of gold that we had. As obvious to everyone, Gold is a limited finite resource. Counties on the Gold Standard had to be careful of the amount dollars circulating threw the economy because if everyone decided that they want to convert their dollars into gold, then that could be a disaster.

The U.S. had about 5 depressions while our dollar was backed by precious metals. The number of depression when we officially left the gold standard, ZERO. The Gold Standard doesn't work period, which is why every countries abandoned having their currency backed by gold.

Our dollar is backed by the full faith credit of the U.S. government. So even though it's not backed by a precious metal, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have value. Although the dollar is intrinsically worthless in the sense that the dollar doesn't have intrinsic value, we are still willing to work and produce output to still hold the currency. So it has value nonetheless.

Now people might be wondering 'WELL WHY DEVALUATION OF THE DOLLAR STILL GOES UP AND DOWN?' Simply put that all have to do with the standard of living going up and down. Cheaper labor abroad, income stagnating, income decreasing and/or vice versa.

Well that's my introduction. Are you on my side yet imaginethat about how the Gold Standard is an outdated primitive economic ideology?

Last edited by Fayt; March 16th, 2013 at 12:12 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #2
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Old March 16th, 2013, 12:36 PM   #3
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the reason Keynesan economic model failes is that the government MUST TAX money out of the economy to put fewer dollars back into the economy.

so what happens it is a negative sum game. Government takes more money out of the then it can put back into the economy.

if the government prints more money the money becomes devalued. which then creates massive poverty, as we are seeing today.. where Obama has printed 9 trillion dollars spent it and we have 1 in 6 in poverty, only 1 in 9 were in poverty in 2008.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #4
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I think threads devoted to usurping another moderator's opinion is very bad protocal.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #5
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This is a debate website and everyone can post their opinions. I'm not a machine, I can't reply to everyone's posts.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #6
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no depression since going off the gold standard.

means overdue, depression delayed is not depression denied. the longer we put it off, the worse it will be.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fayt View Post
This is an attempt to get imaginethat to agree with Fayt and liberals in general about the subject highlighted. All libertarians/conservatives invited of course. However, I'm mainly focus on responding to Imaginethat so sorry if I can't respond to everyone's posts. This thread will only last a week. If I can't get imaginethat to agree with me before next Saturday, then this thread will be closed and the next thread will begin. This weeks thread, Debt, Fiat money, gold standard.


__________________________________________________ _______________

Modern Monetary Economics brings us into the 20th, 21th century of how a developed country allocates scarce resources and takes care of its citizens. Monetary economics is just the simple reality that we're not on the Gold Standard anymore and I'm arguing that that's a good thing. Before President Richard Nixon officially ended the Gold Standard in 1971 the U.S. was constrained in the number of dollars it could print by the amount of gold that we had. As obvious to everyone, Gold is a limited finite resource. Counties on the Gold Standard had to be careful of the amount dollars circulating threw the economy because if everyone decided that they want to convert their dollars into gold, then that could be a disaster.

The U.S. had about 5 depressions while our dollar was backed by precious metals. The number of depression when we officially left the gold standard, ZERO. The Gold Standard doesn't work period, which is why every countries abandoned having their currency backed by gold.

Our dollar is backed by the full faith credit of the U.S. government. So even though it's not backed by a precious metal, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have value. Although the dollar is intrinsically worthless in the sense that the dollar doesn't have intrinsic value, we are still willing to work and produce output to still hold the currency. So it has value nonetheless.

Now people might be wondering 'WELL WHY DEVALUATION OF THE DOLLAR STILL GOES UP AND DOWN?' Simply put that all have to do with the standard of living going up and down. Cheaper labor abroad, income stagnating, income decreasing and/or vice versa.

Well that's my introduction. Are you on my side yet imaginethat about how the Gold Standard is an outdated primitive economic ideology?
No.

When currency is not tied to a commodity, central banks can manipulate the economy with fiat money. Money goes from being a medium of exchange to being a political tool. And the Fed has been doing this for 100 years, in secret.

A list of US recessions can be found here: List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Perhaps you can explain what you mean by "5 depressions." It would be helpful to the discussion. But according to that list, the US has had 19 recessions since the privately owned Fed took control of currency creation and interest rates, and six recessions since the US abandoned the Bretton Woods Agreement in 1971.

Also, please define "the full faith credit of the U.S. government."
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
no depression since going off the gold standard.

means overdue, depression delayed is not depression denied. the longer we put it off, the worse it will be.
The ability to manage downturns is better enabled due to modern monetary and fiscal policies. Not saying that we can't go into a depression, but that we have better tools to prevent them and recover.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #9
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I think threads devoted to usurping another moderator's opinion is very bad protocal.
It's OK.

Fayt's defending her truth.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 04:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
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The ability to manage downturns is better enabled due to modern monetary and fiscal policies. Not saying that we can't go into a depression, but that we have better tools to prevent them and recover.
you missed the point, depressions need to happen, they must happen, they will happen. the bigger the house of cards you stack, the more fragile it is and the bigger the mess is makes when it comes down.
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