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Old October 7th, 2015, 07:48 AM   #21
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Weed is great and has a lot of benefits, but when it becomes a debilitating habit, that's when it's time to stop using it.
weed also makes you stupid.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 07:52 AM   #22
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I believe that is a cop out and junk science.
Actually, it's a scientific fact. It is a mental illness that requires treatment, the effects of drugs on the mind are very powerful.

From wikipedia:

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Addiction is a disorder of the brain's reward system which arises through transcriptional and epigenetic mechanisms and occurs over time from chronically high levels of exposure to an addictive stimulus (e.g., morphine, cocaine, sexual intercourse, gambling, etc.).[1][9][10] ΔFosB, a gene transcription factor, is a critical component and common factor in the development of virtually all forms of behavioral and drug addictions;[9][10][11][12] two decades of research into ΔFosB's role in addiction have demonstrated that addiction arises, and addictive behavior intensifies or attenuates, along with the genetic overexpression of ΔFosB in the D1-type medium spiny neurons of the nucleus accumbens;[1][9][10][11] due to the causal relationship between ΔFosB expression and addictions, it is used preclinically as an addiction biomarker.[1][9][11] ΔFosB expression in these neurons directly and positively regulates drug self-administration and reward sensitization through positive reinforcement, while decreasing sensitivity to aversion.[note 1][1][9]
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Old October 7th, 2015, 08:01 AM   #23
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Actually, it's a scientific fact. It is a mental illness that requires treatment, the effects of drugs on the mind are very powerful.

From wikipedia:
Disorder and disease are completely different.

I have kicked more than one habit over the years. I am not attempting to undermine addiction in any way but a disease it is not. I have had this argument w/ many shrinks over the years. If its classified as a disease then insurance can treat it as such. No other explanation.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 08:31 AM   #24
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Disorder and disease are completely different.

I have kicked more than one habit over the years. I am not attempting to undermine addiction in any way but a disease it is not. I have had this argument w/ many shrinks over the years. If its classified as a disease then insurance can treat it as such. No other explanation.
Insurance should treat it as such, so should the legal system.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 09:04 AM   #25
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Insurance should treat it as such, so should the legal system.
My argument is purely in the use of the word disease. It is not a disease in any form of the word.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 09:12 AM   #26
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My argument is purely in the use of the word disease. It is not a disease in any form of the word.
Maybe disease was the wrong word, illness makes more sense.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 09:23 AM   #27
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I believe this discussion is a matter of semantics. It is a matter of how one defines "disease". If we limit the definition to conditions caused by bacteria and viruses then no, addiction isn't. But if we include "conditions" or "syndromes" then yes it is. I think that is what the difference is here.

I'm more interested in trying to define where and when a casual enjoyment of your favorite poison goes from being an indulgence to being an addiction.

For example, there are many so called functioning alcoholics, people who get to work every day, sober and competent, perform their duties, go home or to the bar, get pissed, sleep, get to work, rinse and repeat again and again. Is that an extreme indulgence or an addiction?
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Old October 7th, 2015, 09:50 AM   #28
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I believe this discussion is a matter of semantics. It is a matter of how one defines "disease". If we limit the definition to conditions caused by bacteria and viruses then no, addiction isn't. But if we include "conditions" or "syndromes" then yes it is. I think that is what the difference is here.

I'm more interested in trying to define where and when a casual enjoyment of your favorite poison goes from being an indulgence to being an addiction.

For example, there are many so called functioning alcoholics, people who get to work every day, sober and competent, perform their duties, go home or to the bar, get pissed, sleep, get to work, rinse and repeat again and again. Is that an extreme indulgence or an addiction?
Well, we have people who take their Xanax, or Zoloft, or Effexor every day, and in some cases cannot just quit, and in some cases can't even taper off gradually. Their docs prescribe these drugs to be "normal." Is this a case of an approved addiction (paid for by insurance btw)?
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Old October 7th, 2015, 10:00 AM   #29
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Well, we have people who take their Xanax, or Zoloft, or Effexor every day, and in some cases cannot just quit, and in some cases can't even taper off gradually. Their docs prescribe these drugs to be "normal." Is this a case of an approved addiction (paid for by insurance btw)?
Yes, which brings up another conundrum. That is a classic case of addiction, but given that it (arguably) results in a net benefit to the individual and society, does that mean that not all addictions are harmful?

Mrs. RNG is on tranks. And I assure you both her and my quality of life have improved significantly. Mind you her doctor is very conservative about their use.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 06:48 PM   #30
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Addiction is a disease. Drugs rewire your brain chemistry.
True story, there is a middle aged guy out there named Dan Gorske who eats two McDonald Big Mac hamburgers every single day, basically his lunch and dinner. Eats nothing else. Has no desire too. This guy even keeps a suppily of Big Mac hamburgers in the freezer, so he has a suppily if for some reason he cannot get to a McDonalds. Seriously. Wiki article below.

If you went to a doctor and told him of this diet, he would probably tell you to stop, because it is medically harmful, in most of their medical opinions. However, Gorske is healthy. However, he would probably go apeshit if you stole his hamburgers, took away his driver's license and closed every McDonalds within 20 miles of his house.

Question, does Gorske have a "disease"? He has an unnatural obsession and desire for Big Mac hamburgers. He is clearly addicted to him. He would probably be sick if he was deprived of his hamburgers. Or could it be that he has a habit, an arguably unhealthy habit. Why does Gorske only eat Big Macs? Who knows except it is a psychological thing. I have seen TV reports of the guy. He is a bit goofy, probably has some kind of mental disorder which he "medicates" himself with crappy, mass produced hamburgers.

People are addicted to lots of things. I am addicted to the internet. Really. Take away the internet, have the internet down and not working. I go crazy. I climb the walls. I will shake. I will have mental obsessions of somehow getting on the internet. I get sick when my computer is broken. Is this a disease?

What about people who are addicted to gambling, food, sex, work, television or a hundred other pleasures? Is this a disease or a habit?

The "disease" model holds no water whatsoever. Addiction is basically a destructive habit that is used because it is pleasurable and medicated psychological problems. Of course drugs (dope!) changes one's brain chemistry. Still doesnt make it a disease.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Gorske
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