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Old September 30th, 2016, 04:18 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
are you implying that the state artificially inflating the wage will also cause other wages to also be artificially inflated?

i agree. the question is where will the money come from to sustain those artificially inflated wages?

are you also stating that artificially inflating wages will promote innovation?

w/ this i also agree

the workers who do not find themselves priced out of the job market will sooner than later find themselves replaced by innovation.

none of that is good for the workers who are most closely affected by the minimum wage.
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sabcat, I’m stating that reduction of the U.S. dollar’s purchasing power due to the increase of the federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is not greater than the reduction of the dollar’s purchasing power due to any other increase of aggregate prices and spending.
Those that Shout “INFLATIONARY!!!” when the FMW rate’s increased do not similarly scream when the prices of public utilities or movie tickets or beer are increased. The federal minimum wage rate is not a particular cause of the U.S. dollar’s inflation but it certainly is a victim of that inflation.

Although aggregate employee derived incomes and their purchasing powers are increased due to increases of the federal minimum wage rate, earners of all wage rates do not benefit to a proportionally equal extent. Increase of the minimum rate is reflected as PROPORTIONALLY greater earned incomes and purchasing powers for lower wage earners and PROPORTIONALLY lesser for higher wage earners. But every increase of the minimum rate has been of net economic and social benefit to our nation.

The greatest direct beneficiaries of minimum rate increases are the working poor. The direct benefits of all other employees decrease as their employment derived incomes increase. Beyond the nation’s earners of USA’s median wage rates, the direct benefits due to a minimum rate increase are hardly perceivable. To the extent that employees’ families and other entities benefit from an economy that greater values human labor, they indirectly benefit from increases of the minimum rate. This paragraph then has described all of the working poor, their families, and all persons to the extent that they’re dependent upon entities which in turn are dependent upon the wellbeing of USA employees and their families. That’s effectively almost USA’s entire population and a great many enterprises operating within the USA.

This would explain why increases of the federal minimum wage rate have always been to our nations net economic and social benefit and why the majority of USA’s population (with a plurality of greater than 10%), more or less approves of its existence.

There are few among wealthy or competent people that are opposed to the federal minimum rate. But the U.S. Congress has not yet finally increased the minimum rate and thereafter automatically retain its purchasing power; I’m confident that such a federal act is inevitable.

An overwhelming proportions of minimum rate opponents lack self-esteem. They need whatever affirmation of their own worth that they can derive by being able to look down upon people experiencing lesser financial conditions. They cannot acknowledge or admit to themselves their fears of improving the financial conditions of others would consequentially reduce their own social status.
That’s the essence of personal and political opposition to the federal minimum wage rate.

Respectfully, Supposn


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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sabcat, my post of September 30th, 2016, 03:42 AM fully responds to your post's last sentence.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sabcat, the federal minimum wage rate’s is the cause of “artificially inflating wages”? By that same logic we should agree an entrepreneur purchasing control of a medical necessity and increasing the remedy’s price to whatever the market will bear is an artificially inflated price.

All prices of goods and services, (labor is certainly a service), are the consequences of factors and forces behaving within their environment.
The prices of labor, medical remedies, legal services and Heinz baked beans are all reflections of our markets’ behaviors, the legal patents, copyrights and production costs of our economy; (i.e. they reflect our economic, commercial, legal and geographical environment).

If you consider the laws that uphold the federal minimum wage rate as creating “artificially inflated wages” then shouldn’t you logically consider the laws that defend the rights of private property as “artificially sheltered wealth”?

I’m a populist. I believe that the superior economy is one that enables the nation’s population to enjoy the superior sustainable living standards. We can disagree upon what is a superior sustainable living standard or how an economy can be devised to achieve such a goal; but your concept of an artificially inflated wage is illogical.

Respectfully, Supposn
when the state decides what private businesses must pay people that is an artificial wage increase, this is not the people increasing the value they place on the work done by the worker but the state deciding that all work is worth at least a specific amount.

why you went off about inflation and insecurities as you danced through out my response i have no idea. there is no reason that the state should determine the pay that one private citizen gives another for services provided. increasing it by almost 100% will have some serious negative effects on the economy. the state is sure to price people out of work as many services are not worth $30k/y

robots will win this battle. yes there will be any more jobs creating and maintaining the more automated work force but those jobs will require education and training. who is an employer more likely to invest in a 25y/po graduate or a 40y/o parent w/ a GED?
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Old September 30th, 2016, 04:23 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
Two things.

The US economy doesn't move a fraction of a point on the restaraunt business. They come, and they go, and the economy will be just fine the day McDonalds closes it's doors.

The minimum wage was increased before there was a McDonalds. It will be increased after it's gone.

If there is one business model that can be considered the most irrelevant of all business models anywhere in the world, it's the restaraunt business.

There is always another one waiting to take the place of the next failure in line, just like drug dealers on a street corner.

Good luck to those robot store owners in the neighborhoods with a bunch of unemployed thugs.

I'm sure they will be able to keep insurance policies after the constant vandalism to the buildings, that the local police departments eventually stop responding to calls on.

And those kind of stores won't do well in the lily white gated communities, so it looks like McDonalds will becoming another gas and go chain on the side of interstates.

Meanwhile, back in the real world. Another new restaraunt chain opens up, and the minimum wage keeps going up.

Nice post.

Quote:
People at or below the federal minimum are:

Disproportionately young: 50.4% are ages 16 to 24; 24% are teenagers (ages 16 to 19).
Mostly (77%) white; nearly half are white women.
Largely part-time workers (64% of the total).
minimum wage workers by occupational groupThey’re employed in the industries and occupations you might expect: More than half (55%) work in the leisure and hospitality industry, about 14% in retail, 8% in education and health services, and the rest scattered among other industries. Broken down occupationally, the picture is similar: Nearly 47% are in food-preparation and serving-related occupations; 14.5% are in sales and related occupations, 7% in personal care and service occupations, and the rest are scattered.

Who makes minimum wage? | Pew Research Center
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Old October 1st, 2016, 09:25 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Bullshit. The vast majority of employers will not pay one more dime than they have to. The amount of expertise required to do the job adequately has little to nothing to do with it.
If the job requires the expertise of a trained chemical engineer and an experienced American one will cost the employer $75,000.00 he will move heaven and earth to get a green card for a chemical engineer he can hire in China that will work for 1/2 that or less.
Nor should they have to pay more than they absolutely have to. They're in business to make money, not friends! The "expertise" required has everything to do with it! How much expertise does it take to flip a hamburger?! If an employer is bringing in foreign labor, look to your own government!
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Old October 1st, 2016, 10:06 AM   #64
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There are no laws defending private property. Property is one of the three most basic inalienable rights protected by the Bill of Rights. What is not in the Constitution is federal government's authority over wages outside a federal district.
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JimmyB, no police, no lawyers, no civil or criminal courts, no prisons, no crimes or suites for damages. You live in a wonderful society where inalienable rights are always respected.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
What does this have to do with my post?
JimmyB, no police, no lawyers, no civil or criminal courts, no prisons, no crimes or suites for damages? You must then live in a wonderful society where inalienable rights are always respected.
Otherwise you would be residing within a nation where police, lawyers, criminal courts, prisons, criminal and civil court cases do exist.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old October 1st, 2016, 10:19 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JimmyB, no police, no lawyers, no civil or criminal courts, no prisons, no crimes or suites for damages? You must then live in a wonderful society where inalienable rights are always respected.
Otherwise you would be residing within a nation where police, lawyers, criminal courts, prisons, criminal and civil court cases do exist.

Respectfully, Supposn
I still do not understand the relevance of your post and mine. There is no connection.
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Old October 1st, 2016, 10:32 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
Nor should they have to pay more than they absolutely have to. They're in business to make money, not friends! The "expertise" required has everything to do with it! How much expertise does it take to flip a hamburger?! If an employer is bringing in foreign labor, look to your own government!
So, you agree with my post 100%. Including the first word of it, "Bullshit, which was a response to the post MY post was responding to.
Thank you.
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Old October 1st, 2016, 10:52 AM   #67
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... What is not in the Constitution is federal government's authority over wages outside a federal district.
JimmyB, you're questioning the constitutionality of our federal minimum wage rate? It has and can continue to legally prevail.
Respectfully, Supposn
/////////////////////////

Within the U.S. Constitution’s preamble:
“promote the general welfare”.

Within article 1, section 8:
“The Congress shall have power to … provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; … To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; … fix the standard of weights and measures; … To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof”.
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Old October 1st, 2016, 12:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JimmyB, you're questioning the constitutionality of our federal minimum wage rate? It has and can continue to legally prevail.
Respectfully, Supposn
/////////////////////////

Within the U.S. Constitution’s preamble:
“promote the general welfare”.

Within article 1, section 8:
“The Congress shall have power to … provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; … To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; … fix the standard of weights and measures; … To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof”.
I am questioning the federal minimum wage laws. It is not on the first paragraph of Article I. There are no grants of power in the first paragraph. You cannot use ellipses to join the enumerated powers with the first paragraph.

The Constitution was written in legal English circa 1787 regarding government power: potestas stricte interpretatur.
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Old October 1st, 2016, 01:02 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
In 1969 the min wage was in today's money $16 an hour. All those fat food joints and small businesses did just fine. Every time there's been a discussion of wage hikes we hear the exact same arguments. The truth is, is half the cases unemployment went up slightly and in the other half it went down slightly.

But here is the issue. Had min wage, like CONGRESSIONAL PAY and Social Security been tied to inflation, it would be $16 an hour today. It's less than half that. This is whats wrong with the economy. It;s what wrong with the federal and state budgets. The tax base is NOT RISING. As the price of everything else goes up and wages stay the same, people have less money to spend. Lower sales mean less income for local and state governments. Stagnant wages mean less income at the federal level.

We've reached the point where most working Americans can't afford many of the products and services they make. We need to raise wages and bring manufacturing back to this country.
Minimum wage 1969 was $1.60/hour

160 in 1969 = $10.50 in 2016 not 16

oops..


CPI Inflation Calculator
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Old October 1st, 2016, 02:00 PM   #70
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I am questioning the federal minimum wage laws. It is not on the first paragraph of Article I. There are no grants of power in the first paragraph. You cannot use ellipses to join the enumerated powers with the first paragraph.

The Constitution was written in legal English circa 1787 regarding government power: potestas stricte interpretatur.
JimmyB, the ENTIRE article 1, section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is as follows:
“All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives”.

Your contention is that paragraph does not explicitly mention the federal minimum wage rate or any other specific government topic or issue, thus our federal legislators do not have the power to legislate anything regarding any specific topic or issue? Do you actually know precisely what you are contending?

When you decide what you meant to write, please let us all know.

Respectfully, Supposn
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