Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Money and Finance > Economics


Thanks Tree88Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 26th, 2017, 10:48 AM   #41
forgot my old user name
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumara View Post
Capitalism brought China out of poverty and gave them one of the top economies in the world.

How China went from communist to capitalist - Business Insider
I don't trust clickbait business insider enough to open the article, and since I haven't scrolled through all the followup posts yet, I'd like to know if they ever get around to noting how capitalism has caused deep ecological devastation in China that has been caused by so called "modernization?"

Back when we first started seeing video footage of Maoist China back in the 70's, the striking visual was thousands...maybe even millions of Mao-jacket-cladded cyclists bicycling through the streets of Beijing. Nowadays, you'd drop over dead if you tried to ride a bike in any of China's major cities!

A big part of taking an honest appraisal of capitalism is going to have to be looking into the longterm consequences/ not short term enrichment from exploitation of the environment..and especially in Communist/Capitalist China's example: exploitation of people forced off the land by the age-old capitalist tactic of clearing the commons to provide an overabundant city workforce.

Right now, communist/capitalist China is in a race to become the dominant global economic superpower more from their own ecological and demographic limits than the military threats and economic efforts of the US Empire. By the middle of this century, China is going to be an economic basketcase again because of exceeding their ecological limits...only thing on the plus side is that so will the rest of the world as the gathering storm of ecological ramifications of "progress" start kicking the struts out from under the New World Order...as John McCain calls it.
Thanks from imaginethat
right to left is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 10:51 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Hollywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Memphis, Tn.
Posts: 17,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
So-called wealth inequality (whatever that actually means) created the modern society, with which 100 years ago in cities, and their suburbs, we had modern housing (yeah, there were tenements, they have those in Marxist countries as well), with indoor plumbing, hot and cold running water, telephone service, electricity.


That's nice, what's your point?
Thanks from imaginethat and Daws77
Hollywood is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 11:02 AM   #43
forgot my old user name
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
It's funny you mention Walmart. I have a friend that used to work at their head quarters. She told me that is exactly their business modal. They intentionally drive manufacturing companies either out of the country or out of business. Destroying the manufacturing base keeps wages low, so that people can only afford to shop at Walmart.

They ARE the evil empire and I don't do business with them. They are a magnificent example of just how evil capitalism can be.

There's an excellent documentary on Walmart "The High Cost of Low Prices" after watching it, even if it's only half right, I was almost ready to blow up my local store just on principal.
It's probably in the doc you mentioned, but apparently part of Walmart's "incentive" structure for their suppliers is to do all the necessary paperwork and provide all the contacts the supplier will need to move their manufacturing operations out of the country to China, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or wherever the hell their getting rock-bottom wages today.

But, once they follow through and make the move, Walmart is still prodding them to keep lowering prices every year or threatening to change suppliers. Worth noting that the demand for lower and lower prices has been the no.1 reason for all of the disasters in the Bangladesh clothing district a few years back. All the fires plus the factory building collapse that killed more than 1000 poor and mostly female textile workers, happened because they were threatened with dismissal if they refused to keep working in a building that was shifting and groaning from the structural load....all this was allowed to peak with major disasters cause any suppliers that didn't downgrade costly safety codes in the name of production...or in the case of the collapse, wanted time to construct a new building..all of them were threatened with removal of their supplier contracts and told that Walmart and the other major American clothing retailers using them would move on to the next target of disaster capitalism...which at that time was Sri Lanka.

It all sort of puts into perspective what happens when you "unfetter" the forces of capitalism!
Thanks from imaginethat
right to left is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 11:26 AM   #44
forgot my old user name
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
So-called wealth inequality (whatever that actually means) created the modern society, with which 100 years ago in cities, and their suburbs, we had modern housing (yeah, there were tenements, they have those in Marxist countries as well), with indoor plumbing, hot and cold running water, telephone service, electricity.


Here's a good example of why inequality is such a malevolent force in the world: Robert Mercer...if you don't know the name you should! Because Robert and his daughter Rebekah Mercer are the billionaires who started funding Steve Bannon and Andrew Breitbart several years ago..took a liking to Donald Trump, and pretty much financed the otherwise unprofitable Breitbart News since Andrew's coke-induced heart attack several years ago.

Once we note the economic and political harms that having a tiny handful of wealthy men running a country for their own interests can cause + the social damage to larger and larger populations falling behind in a social darwinist system, we get a chance to make note of the dangerously skewed psychological ramifications extreme wealth can cause to the benefactors themselves. In Mercer's case it's his social darwinist thinking that goes way above what Bannon, Trump or anyone else says publicly: Mercer in essence believes that wealth is and should be the sole determinant of a person's value to society.
Several former colleagues of Mercer’s said that his views are akin to Objectivism, the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Magerman told me, “Bob believes that human beings have no inherent value other than how much money they make. A cat has value, he’s said, because it provides pleasure to humans. But if someone is on welfare they have negative value. If he earns a thousand times more than a schoolteacher, then he’s a thousand times more valuable.” Magerman added, “He thinks society is upside down—that government helps the weak people get strong, and makes the strong people weak by taking their money away, through taxes.” He said that this mind-set was typical of “instant billionaires” in finance, who “have no stake in society,” unlike the industrialists of the past, who “built real things.”

The Reclusive Hedge-Fund Tycoon Behind the Trump Presidency - The New Yorker


So, if you're a billionaire in Mercer World, you're part of the club...and so on down the line..I imagine Bannon is valued by Mercer only for what he can provide to meet his objectives..and when you get down to the poor, especially if..God forbid!..someone is living on welfare or a disability pension, then they have NEGATIVE VALUE to the society! That should raise alarm bells today if anyone has read the background stories that came out after David Rockefeller kicked the bucket last week..especially the role John D. had in a particularly horrific version of the Eugenics movement in early 20th century Brazil through his Rockefeller Foundation "charity" after WWI...in brief, the indigenous, Africans and all the mixed race people should be eliminated to purify the bloodline of the Brazilian nation. In today's overcrowded, increasingly dystopian world, it is pretty damn easy to plot out realistic scenarios of the rich elite deciding to cleanse the Earth of the surplus population..and no doubt about who they consider surplus!

The Rockefellers’ arrival in Brazil

The Rockefeller Foundation first arrived in Brazil during World War I and was embedded within the so-called “public health movement” amongst Brazilian elites. At that time, Brazilian eugenics was synonymous with public health and emphasized “hygienization”, expressed in the maxim “to sanitize is to eugenize”. With Rockefeller assistance, the creation of the Eugenic Society of Săo Paulo in 1918 represented the institutionalization of eugenics in Brazil. Amongst elites, eugenics was associated with evolution, progress and civilization, even treated by some as a ‘new religion’. In “War against the weak” Edwin Black explains that the purpose of the Rockefeller Foundation was to finance programs aimed at “the extermination of those considered degenerate”. In Brazil this meant the poor, the ignorant, those of mixed race and African descent.
Thanks from imaginethat and Clara007
right to left is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 01:23 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 54,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat
Bankers and debt create slaves. lots of them
I still say much if not most of those are self-inflicted injuries.
Indeed, and that's even worse.
Thanks from Hollywood
imaginethat is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 01:45 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 54,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Here's a good example of why inequality is such a malevolent force in the world: Robert Mercer...if you don't know the name you should! Because Robert and his daughter Rebekah Mercer are the billionaires who started funding Steve Bannon and Andrew Breitbart several years ago..took a liking to Donald Trump, and pretty much financed the otherwise unprofitable Breitbart News since Andrew's coke-induced heart attack several years ago.

Once we note the economic and political harms that having a tiny handful of wealthy men running a country for their own interests can cause + the social damage to larger and larger populations falling behind in a social darwinist system, we get a chance to make note of the dangerously skewed psychological ramifications extreme wealth can cause to the benefactors themselves. In Mercer's case it's his social darwinist thinking that goes way above what Bannon, Trump or anyone else says publicly: Mercer in essence believes that wealth is and should be the sole determinant of a person's value to society.
Several former colleagues of Mercer’s said that his views are akin to Objectivism, the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Magerman told me, “Bob believes that human beings have no inherent value other than how much money they make. A cat has value, he’s said, because it provides pleasure to humans. But if someone is on welfare they have negative value. If he earns a thousand times more than a schoolteacher, then he’s a thousand times more valuable.” Magerman added, “He thinks society is upside down—that government helps the weak people get strong, and makes the strong people weak by taking their money away, through taxes.” He said that this mind-set was typical of “instant billionaires” in finance, who “have no stake in society,” unlike the industrialists of the past, who “built real things.”

The Reclusive Hedge-Fund Tycoon Behind the Trump Presidency - The New Yorker


So, if you're a billionaire in Mercer World, you're part of the club...and so on down the line..I imagine Bannon is valued by Mercer only for what he can provide to meet his objectives..and when you get down to the poor, especially if..God forbid!..someone is living on welfare or a disability pension, then they have NEGATIVE VALUE to the society! That should raise alarm bells today if anyone has read the background stories that came out after David Rockefeller kicked the bucket last week..especially the role John D. had in a particularly horrific version of the Eugenics movement in early 20th century Brazil through his Rockefeller Foundation "charity" after WWI...in brief, the indigenous, Africans and all the mixed race people should be eliminated to purify the bloodline of the Brazilian nation. In today's overcrowded, increasingly dystopian world, it is pretty damn easy to plot out realistic scenarios of the rich elite deciding to cleanse the Earth of the surplus population..and no doubt about who they consider surplus!

The Rockefellers’ arrival in Brazil

The Rockefeller Foundation first arrived in Brazil during World War I and was embedded within the so-called “public health movement” amongst Brazilian elites. At that time, Brazilian eugenics was synonymous with public health and emphasized “hygienization”, expressed in the maxim “to sanitize is to eugenize”. With Rockefeller assistance, the creation of the Eugenic Society of Săo Paulo in 1918 represented the institutionalization of eugenics in Brazil. Amongst elites, eugenics was associated with evolution, progress and civilization, even treated by some as a ‘new religion’. In “War against the weak” Edwin Black explains that the purpose of the Rockefeller Foundation was to finance programs aimed at “the extermination of those considered degenerate”. In Brazil this meant the poor, the ignorant, those of mixed race and African descent.
David Rockefeller speaks!!!
“Some even believe [the Rockefellers] are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterising my family and me as ‘internationalists’ conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I’m proud of it.”
We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march toward a world government. . . . The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.
Thanks from Sabcat, Hollywood and right to left
imaginethat is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 02:02 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
BubbaJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
It's probably in the doc you mentioned, but apparently part of Walmart's "incentive" structure for their suppliers is to do all the necessary paperwork and provide all the contacts the supplier will need to move their manufacturing operations out of the country to China, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or wherever the hell their getting rock-bottom wages today.

But, once they follow through and make the move, Walmart is still prodding them to keep lowering prices every year or threatening to change suppliers. Worth noting that the demand for lower and lower prices has been the no.1 reason for all of the disasters in the Bangladesh clothing district a few years back. All the fires plus the factory building collapse that killed more than 1000 poor and mostly female textile workers, happened because they were threatened with dismissal if they refused to keep working in a building that was shifting and groaning from the structural load....all this was allowed to peak with major disasters cause any suppliers that didn't downgrade costly safety codes in the name of production...or in the case of the collapse, wanted time to construct a new building..all of them were threatened with removal of their supplier contracts and told that Walmart and the other major American clothing retailers using them would move on to the next target of disaster capitalism...which at that time was Sri Lanka.

It all sort of puts into perspective what happens when you "unfetter" the forces of capitalism!
They started that with American companies. Walmart is personally responsible for killing American clothing manufacturing. Not to mention thousands of other small companies that made everything from electric fans to plastic bowls.

They'd give them a contract, help them get financing to expand their factories to meet wally world's production and delivery schedules. Then they come back a year later an demand a lower price. Eventually their price demand will be below the cost of production. So Wally pulls the contract. The company goes bankrupt and Wally or one of their existing off shore partners buys up the assets and ships it all to China or where ever.

This is pure evil and unmitigated greed. Purposefully damaging our economy to benefit your self really should be criminal.
BubbaJones is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 04:51 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,060
It's still a fact continually ignored by the Left, that capitalism has given the common man the highest standard of living in the world. Socialism has led to restrictive governments and communism which caused the death of over 100 million people in the last century and has never worked nearly as well as capitalism. The Left never seems to "get it".
Thanks from webguy4 and Sabcat
sumara is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 06:49 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 54,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumara View Post
It's still a fact continually ignored by the Left, that capitalism has given the common man the highest standard of living in the world. Socialism has led to restrictive governments and communism which caused the death of over 100 million people in the last century and has never worked nearly as well as capitalism. The Left never seems to "get it".
Well, the right never seems to "get" that the high standard of living typical of Western nations in general and the US in particular requires an empire. The US doesn't come close to supplying all the raw materials and goods needed to support our high living standard.

Two tools are needed to maintain the needed empire: a large, powerful military, and possession and control of the world's most-sought-after reserve currency. Those factors, plus copious deficit spending, undergird the US' high living standard.

As long as a capitalist nation can expand markets, "conquer" other nations' currencies, and bomb the shit out of other nations or groups within nations, their living standard will be high, if unsustainable.

That's what the right doesn't get, as they hypnotically declare allegiance to MAGA.
Thanks from Hollywood and right to left

Last edited by imaginethat; March 26th, 2017 at 06:52 PM.
imaginethat is offline  
Old March 26th, 2017, 06:55 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Hollywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Memphis, Tn.
Posts: 17,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumara View Post
It's still a fact continually ignored by the Left, that capitalism has given the common man the highest standard of living in the world. Socialism has led to restrictive governments and communism which caused the death of over 100 million people in the last century and has never worked nearly as well as capitalism. The Left never seems to "get it".
Has given the common man WHERE the highest standard of living in the world?
OR, did you perhaps mean to say something long the lines of "regulated modern capitalism and given the common man of the world the highest standard of living in recorded history?"
That, you see, would be more accurate, LOT more accurate.
Thanks from Clara007
Hollywood is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Money and Finance > Economics

Tags
benefits, capitalism, common, man



Search tags for this page
Click on a term to search for related topics.
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The failure of Capitalism goober Healthcare 51 September 3rd, 2016 09:27 PM
Capitalism! coke Current Events 27 October 12th, 2015 10:15 AM
Capitalism. Sabcat The White House 1 February 15th, 2014 04:56 AM
Is Capitalism bad? Danjb25 Current Events 16 November 21st, 2012 07:47 AM
Capitalism's New Era imaginethat Money and Finance 87 September 9th, 2011 07:46 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.