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Old May 27th, 2018, 10:13 AM   #21
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If you consider shares, other assets and dollars in the bank as property I would agree.
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Want a flat tax that's not regressive, tax property, all property, so the people that own the most pay the most, and the people who own next to nothing, pay next to nothing.
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Sales taxes are not particularly regressive; they're not progressive. ...
... The expenditures of the wealthy that would not be subject to a general sales tax, are currently items that generally now reduce their taxable incomes. Proportional to their individual revenues, their expenditures that would be subject to a general sales tax are no less, and I suspect exceed the proportions of their revenues subject to our current federal individuals' income taxes. ...

RNG and Goober, in aggregate, the actual proportional differences between individuals' and their dependents non-commercial, (i.e. personal) spendings, rather their tax returns' reported incomes, more accurately reflects the actual proportional differences of their entire, (i.e. direct and indirect) incomes.

Similarly in aggregate, the actual proportional differences between individuals' and their dependents non-commercial, (i.e. personal) spendings, rather than any method I can conceive of to collect and verify the values of people's entire, (i.e. direct and indirect) property, would not less accurately reflects the actual proportional differences of their entire properties' values.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old May 27th, 2018, 10:26 AM   #22
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RNG and Goober, in aggregate, the actual proportional differences between individuals' and their dependents non-commercial, (i.e. personal) spendings, rather their tax returns' reported incomes, more accurately reflects the actual proportional differences of their entire, (i.e. direct and indirect) incomes.

Similarly in aggregate, the actual proportional differences between individuals' and their dependents non-commercial, (i.e. personal) spendings, rather than any method I can conceive of to collect and verify the values of people's entire, (i.e. direct and indirect) property, would not less accurately reflects the actual proportional differences of their entire properties' values.

Respectfully, Supposn
You can use all the words you want but you can't get away from the fact that someone who has to spend 100% of their disposable income to just barely cover necessities and has a zero or negative net worth can not be equated to a guy who gets a million dollar+ salary, mulitmillions per year in bonuses even if he buys an American luxury car (are there any?) and an American made Yacht (are there any?) and so on. That is still a small fraction of his disposable wealth.

So yes, sales taxes as structured now are very regressive.
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Old May 27th, 2018, 10:26 AM   #23
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RNG and Goober, general sales taxes can be, and usually are drafted to be flat rated taxes.
It's possible to draft general sales taxes in a manner that would judiciously exempt products for which per capita consumption is similar among both those more or less wealthy; that's (admittingly minor) tax relief for the working poor and their dependents.

Similarly, it's possible to draft general sales taxes in a manner that would judiciously exempt the threshold cost of some specific products, in such a judicious manner as to not excessively lose tax revenues, but grant the working poor and their dependents some (admittingly minor) tax relief.
For example: Waiving taxes upon annually cost of living adjusted amounts from monthly or quarterly, or annual prices charged to bona fide residences. That would be for such items as rent and utilities.

I do not agree with “Fair Tax” proponents that contend a consumption tax could or should replace all taxes upon net incomes. It would be a flat rated tax levied more equitably upon our entire population, and that would be the entire federal taxes levied upon those of lesser incomes.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old May 27th, 2018, 10:52 AM   #24
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Consumption and property taxes are seemingly the only way to apply a "fair" tax.
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Old May 27th, 2018, 01:14 PM   #25
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Sales taxes and Income taxes are always billed as "Property Tax Relief", and the poster child is the old widow on a fixed income whose house is now worth a great deal more tahn it was and her taxes are going up....

I would rather see them fix that with residential exemptions and age based deferments, those cases are as rare as the mythical family farm that gets trotted out to oppose the estate tax.

The nice thing about property tax is that it gets collected, it's a lot harder to hide property than it is to hide income.
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Old May 27th, 2018, 01:41 PM   #26
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Sales taxes and Income taxes are always billed as "Property Tax Relief", and the poster child is the old widow on a fixed income whose house is now worth a great deal more tahn it was and her taxes are going up....

I would rather see them fix that with residential exemptions and age based deferments, those cases are as rare as the mythical family farm that gets trotted out to oppose the estate tax.

The nice thing about property tax is that it gets collected, it's a lot harder to hide property than it is to hide income.

I honestly don't understand what you are saying in regards to the old lady. Are you.saying that you want to create a property tax loophole for the elderly?
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Old May 27th, 2018, 07:01 PM   #27
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I honestly don't understand what you are saying in regards to the old lady. Are you.saying that you want to create a property tax loophole for the elderly?
What's your problem with that idea, other than your Soylent Green, antichrist attitude towards "the elderly?"
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Old May 27th, 2018, 07:03 PM   #28
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Sales taxes and Income taxes are always billed as "Property Tax Relief", and the poster child is the old widow on a fixed income whose house is now worth a great deal more tahn it was and her taxes are going up....

I would rather see them fix that with residential exemptions and age based deferments, those cases are as rare as the mythical family farm that gets trotted out to oppose the estate tax.

The nice thing about property tax is that it gets collected, it's a lot harder to hide property than it is to hide income.
The rotten thing about property taxes is you never own your property. Even if you have no mortgage on your property, you're still renting it from the government.

And that sucks big time.
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Old May 28th, 2018, 12:43 AM   #29
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What's your problem with that idea, other than your Soylent Green, antichrist attitude towards "the elderly?"
As i said i dont understand it. And i believe you misunderstand my position on the elderly.
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Old May 28th, 2018, 12:49 AM   #30
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The rotten thing about property taxes is you never own your property. Even if you have no mortgage on your property, you're still renting it from the government.

And that sucks big time.
It makes sense if the monies were applied correctly. Only used for infrastructure and upkeep of the town/city. So a town of 200 w/ dirt roads, a volunteer fire department and one cop could get away w/ little to no tax whereas a town of a few hundred thousand w/ schools, police, parks and all that would pay substantially more. Now if you dont use and what all that crap you could up an move to the smaller town and pay little to nothing.
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