Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Money and Finance > Economics


Thanks Tree15Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 15th, 2017, 08:27 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cliffside Park, NJ
Posts: 431
Sales taxes are not a regressive tax.

Sales taxes are not particularly regressive; they're not progressive.

Opponent of general sales taxes correctly point out that lesser income earners must spend a greater proportion, and higher income earners need not, and generally do not spend their entire incomes for products that would be subject to a general sales tax. Lesser income earners generally do spend a greater proportion of their incomes for such items.
Truly, the poor have little or no discretionary income and the wealthy have more such discretionary income. The poor must spend greater proportions of their incomes for necessities.

The expenditures of the wealthy that would not be subject to a general sales tax, are currently items that generally now reduce their taxable incomes. Proportional to their individual revenues, their expenditures that would be subject to a general sales tax are no less, and I suspect exceed the proportions of their revenues subject to our current federal individuals' income taxes.

But for those that do not pay income taxes, a general sales tax would be a regressive tax.

I'm a proponent for replacing a significant proportion of taxes levied only upon wages and payrolls, and replacing those revenues with a general sales tax. FICA is the most regressive of federal taxes.

Refer to:
FICA and SECA are our most regressive taxes.

Respectfully, Supposn
Thanks from right to left
Supposn is offline  
Old October 15th, 2017, 08:35 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
guy39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kekistan
Posts: 4,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sales taxes are not particularly regressive; they're not progressive.

Opponent of general sales taxes correctly point out that lesser income earners must spend a greater proportion, and higher income earners need not, and generally do not spend their entire incomes for products that would be subject to a general sales tax. Lesser income earners generally do spend a greater proportion of their incomes for such items.
Truly, the poor have little or no discretionary income and the wealthy have more such discretionary income. The poor must spend greater proportions of their incomes for necessities.

The expenditures of the wealthy that would not be subject to a general sales tax, are currently items that generally now reduce their taxable incomes. Proportional to their individual revenues, their expenditures that would be subject to a general sales tax are no less, and I suspect exceed the proportions of their revenues subject to our current federal individuals' income taxes.

But for those that do not pay income taxes, a general sales tax would be a regressive tax.

I'm a proponent for replacing a significant proportion of taxes levied only upon wages and payrolls, and replacing those revenues with a general sales tax. FICA is the most regressive of federal taxes.

Refer to:
FICA and SECA are our most regressive taxes.

Respectfully, Supposn
The nation was funded with a sales tax until the income tax scheme came about. They were called tariffs
Thanks from caconservative and Sabcat
guy39 is offline  
Old October 15th, 2017, 08:46 PM   #3
Banned
 
Hashtag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Upside Down
Posts: 714
As one Supreme Court Justice once remarked, filing your tax return is a yearly confession*. Karl Marx was basically the originator of the progressive income tax, part of his manifesto.


*Must sign under penalty of perjury. No sign, they refuse to accept. Thus repugnant to your right to not be a witness against yourself.
Hashtag is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 02:11 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cliffside Park, NJ
Posts: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
The nation was funded with a sales tax until the income tax scheme came about. They were called tariffs
Guy39, refer to the thread:
USA goods could be more price competitive.

The substantially market driven proposal's entirely funded by USA purchasers of imported goods; it will increase USA's GDP and numbers of jobs while indirectly subsidizing USA's exports.

Respectfully, Supposn
Thanks from guy39
Supposn is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 10:50 AM   #5
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,577
Thanks! Your equivocating source material demonstrates that sales taxes are regressive and provides clear arguments in favor of returning to progressive income taxation..and ending bullshit low interest flat taxes on investment income that gives the rich undeserved tax breaks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sales taxes are not particularly regressive; they're not progressive.

Opponent of general sales taxes correctly point out that lesser income earners must spend a greater proportion, and higher income earners need not, and generally do not spend their entire incomes for products that would be subject to a general sales tax. Lesser income earners generally do spend a greater proportion of their incomes for such items.
Truly, the poor have little or no discretionary income and the wealthy have more such discretionary income. The poor must spend greater proportions of their incomes for necessities.


The expenditures of the wealthy that would not be subject to a general sales tax, are currently items that generally now reduce their taxable incomes. Proportional to their individual revenues, their expenditures that would be subject to a general sales tax are no less, and I suspect exceed the proportions of their revenues subject to our current federal individuals' income taxes.

But for those that do not pay income taxes, a general sales tax would be a regressive tax.

I'm a proponent for replacing a significant proportion of taxes levied only upon wages and payrolls, and replacing those revenues with a general sales tax. FICA is the most regressive of federal taxes.

Refer to:
FICA and SECA are our most regressive taxes.

Respectfully, Supposn
In Canada, our tax system is just slightly less regressive than the US system after a prior Conservative Government played this same bullshit card of "income tax reform" over 20 years ago that ended the employee deduction/increasing deductions for "small business owners" and since the Mulroney Tories didn't have the guts to propose a flat income tax as trust fund baby- Steve Forbes was using as the foundation of his presidential campaign stateside, we got three tax brackets..reduced from the previous 10. Maybe that's what they meant by 'tax reform,' because actual small business owners have a system that is no easier to navigate than before, and those of us who are wage and salaried employees have ZILCH for deductions except for charitable contributions, retirement plans and extraordinary medical costs.

In the US, flatter income taxes already benefited the upper income brackets enough, as anyone can see if they look at any income distribution chart that shows the takeoff for the upper 10% beginning with Reagan, and the corresponding decay and decline of the middle class and regression of lower classes, which in many American cities today are ending up out on the street homeless..unable to rent a hovel and buy food!

At the same time Forbes was presenting flat tax, there were other rightwingers pushing for ending income tax altogether and replacing it with this national sales tax, but aside from idiot token black presidential candidate- Alan Keyes, was the only one who picked it up and ran with it. The stealth neoliberal economic policy schemes that the ruling oligarchs want are getting harder and harder to just slide past the public and the majority of voters these days after 30 years of stagnation and increasing harvesting of wealth at the top of the pyramid...which is as it should be! And no matter how much money the monied classes behind these bullshit economists and their policy 'think' tanks have to push their propaganda out there, the supporters of flat income tax and especially a national sales tax will fall further and further.

*at some point I have to note that we have a national sales tax in Canada..which after years of expensive wrangling was blended in with most of the already existing provincial sales taxes. At the time the Tories first proposed their "GST", a few economists proved with calculations that could fit on a napkin, that more tax revenue could be raised by the Feds by just a slight increase in income tax brackets/because of the much higher costs of collecting and administrating sales taxes! In truth, sales taxes on everything except luxury items should be abolished and the fact that so many rightwing theorists keep floating a sales tax replacement means that efficiency and cost benefit have nothing to do with their reasons.
Thanks from Camelot
right to left is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 01:09 PM   #6
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 36,150
Income tax system would end the day they outlaw payroll deduction.

When a worker had to write the Check to Uncle Sugar every week the revolt would be real.



I like sales taxes when I purchase something for $100 I know I am going to pay $9.20 in taxes.
Thanks from guy39 and Hashtag
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 02:53 PM   #7
Banned
 
Hashtag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Upside Down
Posts: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
Income tax system would end the day they outlaw payroll deduction.

When a worker had to write the Check to Uncle Sugar every week the revolt would be real.



I like sales taxes when I purchase something for $100 I know I am going to pay $9.20 in taxes.

And no paperwork, or confession, to the IRS.

The income tax is so the government can stick its nose into every aspect of our lives.
Thanks from webguy4, TNVolunteer73 and Sabcat
Hashtag is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #8
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 36,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hashtag View Post
And no paperwork, or confession, to the IRS.

The income tax is so the government can stick its nose into every aspect of our lives.
And direct how you spend your money with Targeted Deductions and Tax credits.
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old October 16th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cliffside Park, NJ
Posts: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sales taxes are not particularly regressive; they're not progressive.

Opponent of general sales taxes correctly point out that lesser income earners must spend a greater proportion, and higher income earners need not, and generally do not spend their entire incomes for products that would be subject to a general sales tax. Lesser income earners generally do spend a greater proportion of their incomes for such items.
Truly, the poor have little or no discretionary income and the wealthy have more such discretionary income. The poor must spend greater proportions of their incomes for necessities.

The expenditures of the wealthy that would not be subject to a general sales tax, are currently items that generally now reduce their taxable incomes. Proportional to their individual revenues, their expenditures that would be subject to a general sales tax are no less, and I suspect exceed the proportions of their revenues subject to our current federal individuals' income taxes.

But for those that do not pay income taxes, a general sales tax would be a regressive tax.

I'm a proponent for replacing a significant proportion of taxes levied only upon wages and payrolls, and replacing those revenues with a general sales tax. FICA is the most regressive of federal taxes.

Refer to:
FICA and SECA are our most regressive taxes.

Respectfully, Supposn
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Thanks! Your equivocating source material demonstrates that sales taxes are regressive and provides clear arguments in favor of returning to progressive income taxation. ...
Right to left, equivocating? Really?
Did you bother to read what was proposed?
What specific fault did you find with a proposal for a general sales tax of 4.55% to replace reduction of taxes upon wages and payrolls from 15.3% to 6.2%?
Respectfully, Supposn
Supposn is offline  
Old October 17th, 2017, 09:02 AM   #10
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
Income tax system would end the day they outlaw payroll deduction.

When a worker had to write the Check to Uncle Sugar every week the revolt would be real.



I like sales taxes when I purchase something for $100 I know I am going to pay $9.20 in taxes.
Up here there are very few payroll deductions for wage earners, while higher earners qualify for part of their income taxed at a higher percentage, and we qualify for an extra surtax on medicare. That said, if most working people knew how much executives and business owners were dodging in taxes there would definitely be a tax revolt!
right to left is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Money and Finance > Economics

Tags
fica, regressive, sales, tax, taxes, working-poor



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FICA and SECA are our most regressive taxes. Supposn Economics 11 June 13th, 2018 09:40 AM
MTV joins with the regressive left! coke Liberalism 0 July 8th, 2016 03:57 PM
Regressive left coke Political Ideologies 16 June 16th, 2016 03:29 PM
regressive taxes from liberals webguy4 Taxes 6 December 30th, 2014 04:31 PM
Employers’ Fica Taxes Are Equivalent To A Federal Sales Tax. Supposn Taxes 4 April 6th, 2011 07:04 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.