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Old December 23rd, 2017, 07:53 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Thanks for the opinion. As you are aware, opinions vary.

This is fact:

Quote:
Thus, almost two-thirds of all the bad mortgages in our financial system, many of which are now defaulting at unprecedented rates, were bought by government agencies or required by government regulations.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 07:55 PM   #62
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I was never more disturbed than when I read where this trillion dollars went. (yes we all know it was less than a trillion) All socialist boondoggles. It was almost exactly like the soviet Union. Instead of controlling the profits directly of the business and controlling directly what people get paid instead of that they tax the crap out of people and put the rest on a giant credit card that saps people just the same as taxing them. Taking federal tax money to pay teachers salaries. How infuriating that is.
Disturbed is an everyday event for me but my nerves are not shattered. Lay one trillion dollars end to end and how far is that? I guess that one trillion dollars laid end to end without doing the math would reach Jupiter if not further.

edit: I can easily do the math using scientific notation but I need the length of a one dollar bill in inches. Don't give me centimeters because that is the metric system, fake math.

Last edited by Twisted Sister; December 23rd, 2017 at 08:14 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:07 PM   #63
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Disturbed is an everyday event for me but my nerves are not shattered. Lay one trillion dollars end to end and how far is that? I guess that one trillion dollars laid end to end without doing the math would reach Jupiter if not further.
Its only 831 billion so you can only reach Uranus. Badump-ching.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:38 PM   #64
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There's some truth there. But the REAL issue, which your quote barely mentions was DEREGULATION of the banking and mortgage industry.

When they passed the Banking Modernization Act in 1999, they created a system in which the institutions making the initial loans were COMPLETELY DIVORCED from the institutions that would eventually try to collect those loans.

I saw this first hand. I finally told my mortgage broker that if he continued to suggest that I "could afford" a much larger house, I would seek a new broker. Every conversation we had included a pitch by him hoping to shove me into a larger house and of course a larger loan. At the time I had just gotten divorced and the house needed work. I could either make a large down payment, or have cash to fix the house. I chose to keep my cash and bought the house with an almost 100% loan.

When we finally closed the house one of the papers I signed was a notice that my loan would be resold within 90 days. I made exactly ONE payment to the original loan initiator. I did a refi a couple years later and went thru the same shit again. They were pushing 125% adjustable rate loan. They seemed almost angry when I insisted on a 30 year fixed and only took about $5,000 cash.

That time I didn't even make the first payment before being notified it had been resold. Then a couple years later it was resold again.

BUT, here's why the refi at the two year mark. And here is a HUGE part of the housing melt down.

My first loan was an ARM. Which contained an early pay off penalty for the first two years, but also locked the interest rate for those two years. Now, over the next two years the prime rate had FALLEN by TWO FULL POINTS. SO, when my first rate adjustment came up at the two year mark I fully expected the rate to fall. NOPE !!!!!! THEY JACKED MY INTEREST RATE THREE FULL POINTS !!!! They were basically FORCING me to refinance.

Now luckily I had bought small, well within my means, and had no trouble with a refi. But this is what caused MILLIONS of home owners to default. Their lenders pushed them into loans they could barely afford, then two to three years later those lenders did the same thing, they JACKED the interest rates trying to force people into to refinancing.

The problem was, many people could barely afford their current loan payments, much less a new payments that were in many cases HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS HIGHER. There was NO REASON to raise the rates. By the time the housing market crashed mortgage rates were at or very near historic lows. The loan companies had made their money in the first two years and were looking to roll that money over and use it for the same thing again. Not a bad plan except SO many banks had made SO MANY marginal loans that when they ALL tried to raise rates at the same time, they shot themselves in the foot. Basically the lenders did it to themselves !!!

The rest of the story is, many institutions HAD NO IDEA whose loans they had bought. They have all been sold, repackaged and sold again, some times several times over. It took some banks, or the government agencies that wound up with the loans 4 years to sort out who owed them money and where the houses were actually located. My country house was a repo. Sat empty for 4 years. Three years because it took Fannie that long to figure out who had originated the loan, how many times it had been resold and whether or not there were any additional loans outstanding.

There's a movie out (a couple of years ago) called The Big Short. Now yes it's Hollywood, so they make a good story out of it, but it really does show just how arrogant the banking industry had become AND how WILLFULLY BLIND to what was happening. Definitely worth a watch. The WORST perpetrators were the ratings agencies !!!!! They kept slapping AAA ratings on toxic laon packages because if they didn't the banks selling the junk would simply go to a different agency.

A whole lot of supposedly very smart, highly educated and extremely well paid people made a whole lot of really, really, really stupid, totally counter intuitive, and completely lacking in common sense or logic decisions.

Sadly, a couple of years ago I was in a meeting, and one of our finance people was telling us about the hottest new thing in the banking industry, SUB-PRIME AUTOMOBILE LOANS !!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully the fact that these loans aren't adjustable rate and payments won't fluctuate will keep the default rate down. But all I could do was sit there and shake my head at the shear stupidity if the idea.
Excellent post Bubba. Unfortunately, it will be largely ignored by the right wingers because the actual facts do not fit their spoon fed talking points.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:44 PM   #65
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This is fact:
Actually it's bullshit, it's called the subprime mortgage crisis, because it was largely sub prime mortgages that had the problems, and the government can't buy subprime mortgages. That's why they are called "sub prime".

The big clue was the date, 2009, none of the in depth studies blamed the CRA, NONE of them.
The sub prime housing crisis happened simultaneously in a lot of different countries.
Maybe you can argue that the CRA affected US housing prices, but prices crashed in Ireland at the exact same moment.
No CRA in Ireland or Britain or Iceland, but a housing bubble, and a housing crash and no CRA.

There were countries that did not experience a housing bubble or a subprime mortgage crisis. What these countries have in common is that they have the more heavily regulated banking sectors.
What the countries that experienced the crash had in common, was light market oriented business friendly regulation.

Insurance companies had a new product "Credit Default Swaps", unregulated, no capital requirements, laissez-faire market.
They were coining money, all these premiums coming in against no losses, Premiums on 77 Trillion face, just a money hose. Then the losses came, and they were off the chart, billions at a time, and a lot of places fell, what did you expect from "insurance" that did not require an insurable interest.
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Last edited by goober; December 23rd, 2017 at 08:47 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:57 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
This is fact:
Why? Business Insider offered up its opinion. No more. No less.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:58 PM   #67
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What difference is it to you what the exact amount spent was? You are nit picking.
Questioning your $1 trillion claim is not nitpicking.

Please source your $1 trillion claim.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 09:01 PM   #68
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bump



Questioning your $1 trillion claim is not nitpicking.

Please source your $1 trillion claim.
You look for it yourself.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 09:03 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
Its only 831 billion so you can only reach Uranus. Badump-ching.
Assuming what you say is true then one trillion dollars laid end to end can reach Neptune. Pluto got assigned to a minor planet by Europeans because that is the only planet that an American discovered.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 09:08 PM   #70
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Assuming what you say is true then one trillion dollars laid end to end can reach Neptune. Pluto got assigned to a minor planet by Europeans because that is the only planet that an American discovered.
Damned Euros.....
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