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Old January 29th, 2018, 09:39 PM   #11
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Where will you get the hydrogen? That is still not ever explained as far as I can see.
The only H2 source that begins to make sense, in the sense of being a true step forward for human intelligence, is solar/wind powered electrolysis of sea water. Nothing else seems to make any sense, though the logistics of pulling it off are daunting, indeed.

It would seem generation plants would be dangerous.

H2 powered ICEs could be beautiful, though not nearly as efficient as fuel cells.

I think this is doable, and that we should have begun this project sometime in the 70s or early 80s. Think if we had.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 04:52 AM   #12
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Where will you get the hydrogen? That is still not ever explained as far as I can see.
That’s funny.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 06:31 AM   #13
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Tech might save us - if we can figure out how to generate cheap, abundant energy. Fusion is the likely candidate. Or maybe we can build lots of solar panels in space, & beam the power down.

Yah, resources are finite on Earth, but we're hitting stops on potable water, topsoil, pastureland. If climate keeps shifting - drier, less snowpack, less rain (in forests, where it can trickle down - more heavy flooding in lowlands with poor drainage), continued ravaging of forests & prairie - those & the resulting global upheavals as people flee dying habitat - may unravel governments everywhere.

For a time, we (the World) could feed everyone - if we quit eating as much red meat & dairy as we liked in the West, & shifted rice & cereals to hungry nations, & somehow got around the economics of that. I'm not sure that solution would work now - we've added people, crops are becoming marginal. We may have to accelerate alternatives - textured soya, or something similar - maybe test-tube quasi-chicken or something - textured flavored yeast - something.

If we get into food & water fights/wars globally, that will certainly put a damper on World population growth - but it's a horrible way to fix resource allocation problems - & it's not a real fix, plus it merely delays resolution of the underlying crisis - plus destroys a lot of sunk costs & intellectual capital - which we'll need for a sustainable solution.

The problem is not just drought but also overuse of groundwater. That is consuming groundwater faster than it is replaced. Mexico is literally sinking because of the removal of water.

Quote:
Image result for mexico city sinking facts
Mexico City is sinking. Home to 21 million people, who consume nearly 287 billion gallons of water each year, the city has sunk more than 32 feet in the last 60 years because 70 percent of the water people rely on is extracted from the aquifer below the city.Mar 5, 2016
Why This City of 21 Million People Is Sinking 3 Feet Every Year ...
https://www.ecowatch.com/why-this-ci...3-feet-every-y...
Sinking is not a good thing as sea levels are rising, and this leads to a loss of major farmland flooded by salt water, and in some areas an actual loss of land.

Quote:
Coastal countries are highly prone to sea-level rise, which leads to salt-water intrusion and increased salinity levels in agricultural land. Also typical for these regions are floods and waterlogging caused by cyclones and typhoons, as well as prolonged drought periods.

All these climate related issues play a major role in rendering agriculture in these areas, rice production in particular, increasingly difficult.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-01-food-t...level.html#jCp
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Old January 30th, 2018, 06:35 AM   #14
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That’s funny.
In case you have not noticed. Your comment does not answer the question.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 06:44 AM   #15
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I agree. Tech could pull our asses out of the fire ... on a planet inhabited with people who could think globally. However, a good portion of our electorate believes that doing anything "globally" is wrong, wrong, wrong.

But, the nation that should be the leader in applying science to remedy the serious crises looming currently is being "led" by a person touting selfishness: putting America first.

I think of where we could be had we built upon the wake-up call made by the OPEC oil embargoes. Carter sounded the alarm. Reagan got in bed with the Saudis. The rest is the history leading to right now.
I want to give you at least two thank you's. The leadership of the US today is a humiliation and about the worst thing that could happen environmentally and to the reputation of our nation. In case a Christian is reading, this one a major reason for the objections to Christianity. The US has a stronger Christian domination than other major countries, and our behaviors are not compatible with sharing the planet and avoiding disaster.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 07:26 AM   #16
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Here's an update on an issue I've been following for the past couple of years: the promise of a future filled with billions of 'clean' electric powered cars. I placed this story about the problems of accessing enough rare and essential cobalt(needed for making high storage capacity batteries) here rather than environment, because a shortage of essential resources shows us where reality crashes and dissolves economic theory and wishful thinking about "green technologies!"

The US may have turned back into the deadend of gas-guzzling automobiles, but France and other EU countries are proclaiming that ONLY electric cars and larger vehicles will be on their roads after 2030...lless than 12 years away:

Hype Meets Reality as Electric Car
Dreams Run Into Metal Crunch

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...alt-batteries/


So, along with the typical resource needs of making cars, electric vehicles require high quantities...too high to allow everyone to access needed supplies of cobalt to meet future demand. Reductions in the quantities of cobalt used will help to moderate price increases, but if we imagine turning every I/C engine into batteries and electric motors, it's impossible.

If anyone's curious about why the war in eastern Congo is neverending, the primary reason is trillions of dollars of rare and exotic metals underground. Cobalt, col-tan and rare metals have fueled fake insurgent and rebel groups that are somehow able to get resources to market in the west. Sure, they have to pass through the hands of hedge fund owners looking at the huge profits available by controlling the resources needed to produce millions of batteries, while the US, western powers and even NGO's turn their backs and pretend they don't know how the conflict started or how makeshift mines are able to operate using slave labor. This is where most of your new "innovative" technologies come from and where it all starts before you buy it on Amazon or in the near future-your local car dealer.
https://geopolitics.co/2017/12/07/th...emen-and-iraq/
earlier:
The Business of War in the Democratic Republic of Congo
Cobalt is considered a strategic metal. Strategic metals are different for different countries. If a nation has plenty of the metal it is not strategic to that nation. If a nation has little need for a metal it is not strategic to that nation. Cobalt is essential in the US and it is not found in the US.

This is from GeoDistinies by Youngquist.

Quote:
Strategic metals in a jet engine

A common example of minerals which are in this category has frequently been given as a list of mental which go into a jet airplane engine, a piece of machinery essential to both the military and civilian economies of the world. For these metals, there are no adequate substitutes; aluminum, chromium, columbium, cobalt, nickel, tantalum, and titanium.

Of the metals listed, cobalt is perhaps the one which could be regarded as the most strategic because it is produced in so few places, and it is absolutely vital in just engines. There is no substitute for cobalt in this sue. In 1978, during a civil war in Zaire, rebels invaded the Shaba Province where 70 percent of the world's supply of cobalt is produced. In May that year, the price of cobalt rose from $6 a point to more than $40.
China is buying up the world's supply of cobalt and we are ignoring this? Oh well, these idiots don't know what oil has to do with economics and war. Let them die in their own stupidity. Unfortunately, I had children and they had children, and it is my great grandchildren who will live with the mistakes of those who came before them.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 07:44 AM   #17
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The problem is not just drought but also overuse of groundwater. That is consuming groundwater faster than it is replaced. Mexico is literally sinking because of the removal of water.

Sinking is not a good thing as sea levels are rising, and this leads to a loss of major farmland flooded by salt water, and in some areas an actual loss of land.
Yah. Mexico City is sinking because the Spanish back in 1520s CE demolished the causeways & buildings (or mined them for building materials) & dumped everything into Lake Texcoco - where Tenochtitlan (now Mexico City) was built. They didn't bother to drain the lake (the technology didn't exist then, TMK). & they never bothered afterwards either.

Instead, as the city & federal district grew, & overran the boundaries into the neighboring states, Mexico City began pumping up the water trapped in the valley floor underneath. That was the beginning of the subsidence problem in Mexico City.

Water pumped up from aquifers in the US contains some salt. Over time, as more & more pumps run to water cotton & other thirsty crops, the water evaporates or is taken up by plants, & the salt remains. Cotton fields & other irrigated croplands are gradually poisoned by salt - the search is on for salt-resistant crops, or for methods to desalinate the water, or both. This is a problem generally in the US SW - I'm not sure about other aquifers in the US.
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Old January 30th, 2018, 08:04 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
The problem is not just drought but also overuse of groundwater. That is consuming groundwater faster than it is replaced. Mexico is literally sinking because of the removal of water.

Quote:
Image result for mexico city sinking facts
Mexico City is sinking. Home to 21 million people, who consume nearly 287 billion gallons of water each year, the city has sunk more than 32 feet in the last 60 years because 70 percent of the water people rely on is extracted from the aquifer below the city.Mar 5, 2016
Why This City of 21 Million People Is Sinking 3 Feet Every Year ...
https://www.ecowatch.com/why-this-ci...3-feet-every-y...
Sinking is not a good thing as sea levels are rising, and this leads to a loss of major farmland flooded by salt water, and in some areas an actual loss of land.
It's a slow motion disaster. At some point, Mexico City will cease sinking.

That'll be when the water runs out, which in fact it is doing.
Mexico City today is an agglomeration of neighborhoods that are really many big cities cheek by jowl. During the last century, millions of migrants poured in from the countryside to find jobs. The city’s growth, from 30 square miles in 1950 to a metropolitan area of about 3,000 square miles 60 years later, has produced a vibrant but chaotic megalopolis of largely unplanned and sprawling development. Highways and cars choke the atmosphere with heat-inducing carbon dioxide — and development has wiped out nearly every remaining trace of the original lakes, taxing the underground aquifers and forcing what was once a water-rich valley to import billions of gallons from far away.

The system of getting the water from there to here is a miracle of modern hydroengineering. But it is also a crazy feat, in part a consequence of the fact that the city, with a legacy of struggling government, has no large-scale operation for recycling wastewater or collecting rainwater, forcing it to expel a staggering 200 billion gallons of both via crippled sewers like the Grand Canal. Mexico City now imports as much as 40 percent of its water from remote sources — then squanders more than 40 percent of what runs through its 8,000 miles of pipes because of leaks and pilfering. This is not to mention that pumping all this water more than a mile up into the mountains consumes roughly as much energy as does the entire metropolis of Puebla, a Mexican state capital with a population akin to Philadelphia’s.

Even with this mind-boggling undertaking, the government acknowledges that nearly 20 percent of Mexico City residents — critics put the number even higher — still can’t count on getting water from their taps each day. For some residents, water comes only once a week, or once every several weeks, and that may mean just an hour of yellow muck dripping from the faucet. Those people have to hire trucks to deliver drinking water, at costs sometimes exponentially higher than wealthy residents pay in better-served neighborhoods.
Informative article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...y-sinking.html
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Old January 30th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Cobalt is considered a strategic metal. Strategic metals are different for different countries. If a nation has plenty of the metal it is not strategic to that nation. If a nation has little need for a metal it is not strategic to that nation. Cobalt is essential in the US and it is not found in the US.

This is from GeoDistinies by Youngquist.



China is buying up the world's supply of cobalt and we are ignoring this? Oh well, these idiots don't know what oil has to do with economics and war. Let them die in their own stupidity. Unfortunately, I had children and they had children, and it is my great grandchildren who will live with the mistakes of those who came before them.
Cuba has the world's third-largest cobalt reserves.

So let's poison US-Cuba relationship for some votes in Florida next time around....
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Old January 30th, 2018, 08:33 AM   #20
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On rare earth minerals - the big player is China. They've been going around the World for the last 20 or so years, buying up all the rare earth ores & supplies they can manage to tie down - even buying (openly or covertly) into existing rare earth mining/refining outfits in the US. We (& the West) need to get serious about protecting our interests in these minerals - & look around to see what other markets China is trying to corner.
Actually China is only leading in some/not all rare earth elements...like lithium and neodymium, but if that Bloomberg article I linked is current info, 60% of the cobalt supplied to global markets is coming from the Congo.

Worth noting that the discovery of large reserves of cobalt marked the beginning of the end of the experiment with freedom and democracy for the Congo back in 1960. Back then, when the CIA was informed that cobalt was essential for making cathode ray tubes...used in the old TV sets, and that the Congo had vast reserves of titanium and other heat-resistant and rare metals, that was the end of stubborn independence leader-Patrice Lamumba and the compliant dictatory waiting in the wings- Mobutu Sese Seko was installed and had a long stay until he tried to order around foreing governments and mining companies. The Congo's estimated 18 trillion dollars of non-renewable resources have been a curse ever since the Belgians heard about them over two centuries ago, and under the present system, the curse will never be lifted!
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