Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Education

Education Educational System Forum - For topics and discussions about the educational system


Thanks Tree43Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 5th, 2017, 06:37 AM   #41
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 6
Considering the volume of students who go to college and never graduate for whatever reason, the debt these non-grads incur in the process is staggering to pay off with the lower salaries they would earn. For many they were not prepared for the challenges they would face.

So does that mean they should just give up? No. And here is my solution: I created a series of 160 online 3D interactive maps of history and science that enable students to digitally walk famous explorer expeditions that are quoted and page-referenced based on books written by the explorers themselves that are available to read online. Maps that enable you to explore the depths of the ocean and see the locations of hydrothermal vents and cold seeps. Maps that enable you to zoom in close on the ancient ruins around the world. Maps that enable you to combine the over 100 year old Koppen Climate Classification System with today's NOAA 24-hour radar and METAR Wind Speed and Direction maps in order to determine for yourself the effects of climate change. Maps that enable you to digitally climb Mt. Everest following Hillary's famous expedition. Maps that link to government agencies, universities and other quality sources. Maps that are linked to by such institutions as UN-SPIDER, Smithsonian Libraries Unbound, a National Association of Educators (NEA) article, and various universities and middle schools.

To see a sampling check out my pinterest page at https://www.pinterest.com/georgestiller/
PragmaticStatistic is offline  
Old March 5th, 2017, 06:51 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
skews13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: nirvana
Posts: 9,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by hot dragon View Post
depends on the job. when a graduate starts work, there is a degree of on the job training anyway. it builds on the basics they learned when getting their degree. for a lot of things you need a high level of knowledge before starting on the job training.

the fact that you have got a college degree is some evidence that you have a level of drive, work ethic and ability to learn. at least it used to be, and it should be still.
I would add that in more cases than has been considered, it is better that many graduating from high school got to work first, and then start a college degree after they have had to time to experience the workplace first.

This gives them the opportunity to see how a degree translates into the real world, and thus the insight to make a better decision which degree to pursue, and the real world consequences of the cost of that degree.
Thanks from imaginethat
skews13 is offline  
Old March 5th, 2017, 07:45 AM   #43
Banned
 
fdtwain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 618
Frankly, in the twentieth century most American universities replaced classical education with humanist education with corresponding decline in quality of students. Presently, only American education in technical sciences is worth spending money on.
fdtwain is offline  
Old June 8th, 2017, 03:22 AM   #44
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: US
Posts: 20
I skipped college entirely and instead used my free time to learn business via the Internet. I then used a fraction of what I would've spent on college to kickstart my business. The end result is that I work from home, on my own hours, and am bringing in low-to-mid five figures monthly, with minimal overhead.

I say this not to brag, but to say that I agree that college is a waste of time and money for many people. If you're someone with low expectations, and would be happy working a time-trade job for a fixed income, fine. Go to college. If you'd rather be at the top of the food chain, there are better options.
misty is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 06:31 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
xMathFanx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNG View Post
I think this may be a good thing. But as is so often the case, the devil is in the details.

More High School Grads Decide College Isn?t Worth It | FiveThirtyEight
@RNG

It is not sensible for adults to expect 18 year old kids to make huge life choices that throw them into massive debts. These kids brains are still developing and do not undergo the necessary, significant shift to make such profound decisions until they are 21-25 years old (and it is completely irresponsible of the adults/parents not to inform the kids of this and demand actions that are essentially at direct odds with the child's natural Biological state).

I can tell you (as a College Senior myself, now in my mid-twenties), many of the people/students upper-classman I know at my school are now in their mid-twenties as well (particularly in STEM fields)--although we have came to this position from a variety of backgrounds (which is important).

For me, after High School I worked, attended Community College, and got an apartment with a good friend from High School. I mostly took general classes and was on a completely different path than current, as my cognitive capacities and mind-space were worlds apart. It wasn't until I first turned 21 that a significant mental-shift occurred (as a product of Frontal Lobe development), ultimately leading toward my current path and interests. I had to go back to school for over a year in order to get the technical background in the new path I had decided to undertake (as well as raise my grades in order to get into a good school/program--as I was not aware of the "game" being played when I was younger and first attending College), and then transferred out to my (current) main Uni. which in itself has been a multi-year project due to the sequential nature of the curriculum. Now, looking back, I would not have even attended CC until I hit 21 but rather would have worked more, lived with my buddies (i.e. detach from parents and family structure; establish independence--I already did, but just saying), saved up more money, and had more fun with the free time in my early youth (as there is no way to usher in (essentially) puberty before it Biologically occurs). Going to school when you don't understand the "game" that is being played is highly dangerous for a number of reasons and could potentially have serious, detrimental life-long impacts.

Now, many of my friends at current Uni. have been there since after High School, as they have went through a similar Biological processes around their early twenties that "wakes them up" and ultimately leads them down a different path then they were first on. Thus, they have paid for the tuition and fees of a big University system for 7 years or so(!) simply because no adult had the decency/wisdom/ect. ect. to inform them that the shift that occurred in their early to mid twenties was always to happen just like puberty was (if it did in fact occur, that is).

This is a basis for hope--of sorts. That is, it is actually good to see some sort of acknowledgment about this Biological reality occurring in developing humans and suggest that my generation (at least on this front--there are many, many issues with my generation indeed separate to this matter) is naturally beginning to challenge (at least some) of the arbitrary structures in place in our society, likely due to the increasing spread & easy access to information (of all sorts).
Thanks from Sabcat

Last edited by xMathFanx; January 14th, 2018 at 06:35 AM.
xMathFanx is online now  
Old January 14th, 2018, 06:46 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
Clara007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 9,747
I'm glad this topic is back but was surprised at the post date: April 2014....almost four years ago.
I agree with you RNG. This new trend is a good thing. For far too long we have pushed every kid into the college/university arena. We have neglected our vocational career paths, taken them OUT of high school curriculum and persuaded our young people to focus on college and college alone. Big mistake although our intentions were good.

College is a great experience and it's more than academia. It's living on campus--in a dorm--meeting people from all over the world---finding ourselves/our niche--grasping social ideals and political opinions and learning to support ourselves, but it's not a one size fits all.
Vocational studies are sorely needed and can provide a good, solid income for those who find their passion or at least a career they enjoy.
Two words to remember whether it's college or vocational school: Marketable skills.

GET THEM!!
Clara007 is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 07:06 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 10,704
I am a huge fan of education, for the sake of the quality of life of the individual.
Marketable skills are important, but that's just part of it, people need enough education about the world, the economy, science and nature to make informed choices in the ballot box.
It's wrong to saddle people with debt if those people want to become informed voters.
Education should be freely available to everyone.
The great push to free education is what fueled the economic development of the country, but the levels of education that made sense in the 19th century are woefully inadequate for the world of tomorrow.

Sure, a kid who goes to trade school and gets a plumbing license, will live in a nice house, and enjoy a relatively comfortable life, but when to comes to voting, this person won't have the ability to make an informed choice, and the nation suffers.
Education benefits the society, and the society should fund it most generously.
Thanks from xMathFanx
goober is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 08:03 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
guy39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kekistan
Posts: 3,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
I am a huge fan of education, for the sake of the quality of life of the individual.
Marketable skills are important, but that's just part of it, people need enough education about the world, the economy, science and nature to make informed choices in the ballot box.
It's wrong to saddle people with debt if those people want to become informed voters.
Education should be freely available to everyone.
The great push to free education is what fueled the economic development of the country, but the levels of education that made sense in the 19th century are woefully inadequate for the world of tomorrow.

Sure, a kid who goes to trade school and gets a plumbing license, will live in a nice house, and enjoy a relatively comfortable life, but when to comes to voting, this person won't have the ability to make an informed choice, and the nation suffers.
Education benefits the society, and the society should fund it most generously.
That you actually said a a person who goes to trade school and has a good career will not have the ability to make an informed choice in regards to voting says everything about you. I wish I could say I was shocked to read that coming from you but I can not. What a elitist load of bullshit that you put out there. You actually defiled this entire board with it.

Shadilay,
KeK be upon thee
Thanks from Jimmyb, Libertine and Sabcat
guy39 is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 08:20 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
xMathFanx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
That you actually said a a person who goes to trade school and has a good career will not have the ability to make an informed choice in regards to voting says everything about you. I wish I could say I was shocked to read that coming from you but I can not. What a elitist load of bullshit that you put out there. You actually defiled this entire board with it.

Shadilay,
KeK be upon thee
@guy39

Although (based on my reading of goober's post) I don't agree with your sentiment that he is an "elitist load of bullsh't" (as I think you are taking a hardline view on his positon), I do agree with the bigger picture you are presenting.

It is not at all necessitated to receive formal training in a subject to be educated on it (and in some/many cases, it can actually be much less efficient to go the "formal" route --particularly in the modern world).

Consider, e-learning has democratized learning and made the highest quality education (in a number of areas) available to everyone. With projects such as MITOpencourseware, Yale/Harvard/UC/ect. opencourseware, MOOC's, ect. even a person anywhere in the world caught up in extreme poverty (as long as they have access to the internet in some way) has access to an elite level education. Also, public domain book projects such as OpenLibrary.org (along with public Library Systems), and other outlets have made it so you have access to essentially all of the worlds knowledge for free.

This discussion reminds me of the movie "Good Will Hunting", which was actually a very insightful movie in many ways.
xMathFanx is online now  
Old January 14th, 2018, 08:29 AM   #50
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 29,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
I am a huge fan of education, for the sake of the quality of life of the individual.
Marketable skills are important, but that's just part of it, people need enough education about the world, the economy, science and nature to make informed choices in the ballot box.
It's wrong to saddle people with debt if those people want to become informed voters.
Education should be freely available to everyone.
The great push to free education is what fueled the economic development of the country, but the levels of education that made sense in the 19th century are woefully inadequate for the world of tomorrow.

Sure, a kid who goes to trade school and gets a plumbing license, will live in a nice house, and enjoy a relatively comfortable life, but when to comes to voting, this person won't have the ability to make an informed choice, and the nation suffers.
Education benefits the society, and the society should fund it most generously.
It's funny to me and analogous to the socialism/capitalism argument constantly going on. Are schools to be liberal educations with no stem or trade related subjects or are they to be feeder streams to the military industrial complex with no liberal component?

Just like governments should be some mix of socialism and capitalism, education should be some blend of truths, philosophies, visions with some stem and vocational stuff.

During the first 20 years or so of my career, I was in the Canadian oil industry and it was a big thing for companies to send staff on courses. Being in a very specialized area, there just weren't courses relevant to me but it was company policy so I was still sent to courses. They were as diverse as wilderness survival techniques, economics, and so on. And even though, at the time I scoffed at the waste of my time, every one turned out to be useful to me in one way or another.

I keep coming back to my last year of high school. I had to go to a brand new school. In those days you had no choice. It's course selection was reduced because they hadn't finished the shops yet, but you were forced to take a certain number of courses. It turned out I had a choice of Latin or typing. I had hated my French classes so bad I took typing, something that at the time caused me great grief as all the other guys made fun of me. At that time that was pure secretary training.

But in the end I wonder if that wasn't the single most useful course I ever took in high school. Through another fluke, at the time I was with the company that was only the second one to put a computer on the desk of management and tech staff and that gave me quite a set up compared to the others who couldn't ten finger type.
RNG is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Education

Tags
college, decide, grads, high, isnít, school, worth



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Remarks by the First Lady at Discussion with High School and College Students The White House The White House 0 April 18th, 2014 05:40 AM
High court to decide on war memorial CNN Current Events 1 October 5th, 2009 10:53 AM
23% of Oklahoma High School Students waitingtables Current Events 9 September 21st, 2009 07:25 AM
High School Senior's Nude Photos Posted Around School tadpole256 Education 15 March 19th, 2007 07:00 AM
23% of Oklahoma High School Students Education 0 December 31st, 1969 04:00 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.