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Old January 14th, 2018, 09:08 PM   #61
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I might be a rarity, but for the way most part, I did not like college at all and found the experience to have been a waste of my time and a waste of thousands of dollars of my parents money. I was not a very good high school student, I was not very motivated (although I do love history, religion and government), and found high school to mostly have been a waste of time.

I did not know what to study, or what I wanted to do. My parents pushed me into it, plus the idea in the 1980's which I am sure has not changed that all students should go to college out of high school. Well, I call bullshit on that. Many successful people fifty plus years ago never went to college. Some even dropped out of high school and became successful working class or even white collar professional people. Now, since probably the 1970's, the middle class and above has really pushed their children towards a University education, many times, needlessly.

My father was an airline pilot, who got his job flying for his company in 1960 and retired in 1992 after 32 years of service. The man built several aircraft, owned several more and is basically an aviation God. You should see all the shit he has at his hangar. As Fred Sanford told his son Lamont "One day, all of this will be yours!".......

Back to point, my father couldn't get hired today because he doesn't have a college degree which is required basically to get a job flying a major carrier. The degree can be in anything at all. If you went to Liberty University with a Bachelor of Creation Science, fine by the airline. My dad has a friend who was about ten years younger with a similar background who got shitsnared into that college requirement. Going to college and graduating with anything is the new high school diploma, whereas a high school diploma isn't worth a bucket of warm cheese.

I think once a kid graduated high school unless they are very motivated and know what they are going to do, they should be allowed to live a young adult life. Wait tables, work at Walmart, get an apartment with a couple of friends and work, live and yes, get laid and party. Allow the young person to have a taste of real life and allow that person to find what they might want to do and of college is the right avenue. I do have faults with the military, but this is also a good angle for young people if you take the small risk of being in a battle. What we really have now is college as an extension of high school where the student has had zero life experience. A lot of kids in my college flunked out the first year. Freedom without responsibility, alcohol, dope and girls, boring classes they had no interest in and a push back of what society is having them do.

My take.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 09:57 PM   #62
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What we really have now is college as an extension of high school where the student has had zero life experience.
Yes--Although, depending on what degree one goes for at what age & mind-space they are inhabiting. Overall, however, you are correct; College typically functions as an extension of the (fluffy) High School system, which is an extension of the Day-Care system. That is, College (for the majority of students), is a glorified semi-independent Day-Care system in which they take fluff classes to receive a degree that any person who does not have a substantial learning disability would be able to attain (much like High School diploma), while they are also swiftly being sucked into significant monetary debt, indoctrination toward conformity and obedience for the workforce (as well as societal norms of the time--political & social), all to give them a "jump start" in their life journey (and the parents/adults are encouraging this for their children/upcoming generations (smh..))
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Old January 15th, 2018, 04:59 AM   #63
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Going to college and graduating with anything is the new high school diploma, whereas a high school diploma isn't worth a bucket of warm cheese.
I believe your statement is 100% true.
So, rather than complain and whine and bitch about it. Just accept that it used to be a 12 year commitment that was required to get a job - and now it's a 16 year one. Of course, the advances in medicine more than make up for the four year difference in longevity in a career at the other end.
"Sticking it out" through college says a lot about a person - regardless of what they majored in. It speaks of one's commitment, responsibility, determination, ability to complete assignments, and to manage scheduling and self-regulate.
A college degree says more about a person than their knowledge in the field of their degree.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 06:20 AM   #64
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I would suggest that we need a great deal more of education, simply because I see the lack of education hurting the economy, the nation and the individuals involved.
The way education is delivered needs to be upgraded, to deliver more, but at a lower cost per unit, otherwise it collapses. Having a system that produces a million more advanced degrees a year would be great, but the benefits would be eaten up by having a million people each having a $100,000 in student debt to pay off.
The world needs some serious education reform, some reworking of the system and the techniques and the technology to produce better results.
There may be some market driven reforms, but this is not an ideal application of market driven methodology.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I believe your statement is 100% true.
So, rather than complain and whine and bitch about it. Just accept that it used to be a 12 year commitment that was required to get a job - and now it's a 16 year one. Of course, the advances in medicine more than make up for the four year difference in longevity in a career at the other end.
"Sticking it out" through college says a lot about a person - regardless of what they majored in. It speaks of one's commitment, responsibility, determination, ability to complete assignments, and to manage scheduling and self-regulate.
A college degree says more about a person than their knowledge in the field of their degree.
I disagree with accepting it. The cost of college tuition does not justify accepting it. What needs to happen is that we need to find money for high schools (yes a right winger saying more money to education,oh the horror) to start up trade classes such as welding and shop. We literally need to put high schools in competition with colleges. We need to create a environment in high school where a kid can graduate high school with a welding certification, or a refrigeration tech certification or hell even a LPN perhaps.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 08:47 AM   #66
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welding and shop IS in high schools - it's called vocational school and I don't know a high school that doesn't have one.

welding and shop are NOT vocations which require the usual college degree.

an LPN should NOT be being taught by a high school teacher. The expertise required to give that kind of training is not given in a high school teacher curriculum. That requires a college degree. There is also a requirement that they know math and science.

the cost of college tuition DOES justify accepting it if it's required to get a decent job. There was a time when people said it was foolish to finish high school when you could be out in the work world or contributing to work (making money) on the farm.

times change.

the final sentence in my post to which you replied is still very relevant to an employer.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 08:54 AM   #67
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welding and shop IS in high schools - it's called vocational school and I don't know a high school that doesn't have one.

welding and shop are NOT vocations which require the usual college degree.

an LPN should NOT be being taught by a high school teacher. The expertise required to give that kind of training is not given in a high school teacher curriculum. That requires a college degree. There is also a requirement that they know math and science.

the cost of college tuition DOES justify accepting it if it's required to get a decent job. There was a time when people said it was foolish to finish high school when you could be out in the work world or contributing to work (making money) on the farm.

times change.

the final sentence in my post to which you replied is still very relevant to an employer.
They have shop and welding but usually do not get certification from it. High Schools now have CNA class. Why not stretch it to LPN. A degree is important. I disagree on it being more important than experience depending on the field you are going into. From mechanical perspective, experience is almost always accepted in lieu of a former degree. Certificates of training are put on a even higher level than the degree. Experience plus certificates will normally throw the degree only to the curb.Now, do not get me wrong. Where being an academy graduate can make up for that is networking through the alumni. That is the real secret that a degree can have
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Old January 15th, 2018, 09:46 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
I disagree with accepting it. The cost of college tuition does not justify accepting it. What needs to happen is that we need to find money for high schools (yes a right winger saying more money to education,oh the horror) to start up trade classes such as welding and shop. We literally need to put high schools in competition with colleges. We need to create a environment in high school where a kid can graduate high school with a welding certification, or a refrigeration tech certification or hell even a LPN perhaps.
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They have shop and welding but usually do not get certification from it. High Schools now have CNA class. Why not stretch it to LPN. A degree is important. I disagree on it being more important than experience depending on the field you are going into. From mechanical perspective, experience is almost always accepted in lieu of a former degree. Certificates of training are put on a even higher level than the degree. Experience plus certificates will normally throw the degree only to the curb.Now, do not get me wrong. Where being an academy graduate can make up for that is networking through the alumni. That is the real secret that a degree can have

This is how it is done in some other nations. Around like 14 or so if you are thinking of a trade you can stage a few different trades and if/when one turns you on then you can apprentice for part of your last few years of high school. Then when you finish school you have real world skills, connections and the certification that the leftists find so important.

I predict that this is the way of the future somehow as more and more employers, parents and students are viewing a college as a negitive rather than a positive.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 09:58 AM   #69
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I would suggest that we need a great deal more of education, simply because I see the lack of education hurting the economy, the nation and the individuals involved.
The way education is delivered needs to be upgraded, to deliver more, but at a lower cost per unit, otherwise it collapses. Having a system that produces a million more advanced degrees a year would be great, but the benefits would be eaten up by having a million people each having a $100,000 in student debt to pay off.
The world needs some serious education reform, some reworking of the system and the techniques and the technology to produce better results.
There may be some market driven reforms, but this is not an ideal application of market driven methodology.
What good is an advanced degree if there aren't jobs?

That is the problem in the US, lack of jobs, not lack of STEM students.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 10:22 AM   #70
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What good is an advanced degree if there aren't jobs?

That is the problem in the US, lack of jobs, not lack of STEM students.
There are jobs in STEM fields and most of those degrees are in demand. What is not in demand is the liberal arts degrees. Those poor kids have been scammed and IMO what has been done to them is criminal. You cannot buy a beer or a gun but go ahead and sign here and take on a lifetime of debt. Remember that the people who have been entrusted w/ your guidance have been pushing you in that direction. Now DAMNIT i said latte not cappuccino!!! No, i dont have time for you to make it again. Christ.
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