Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Education

Education Educational System Forum - For topics and discussions about the educational system


Thanks Tree43Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 15th, 2018, 02:17 PM   #71
Senior Member
 
guy39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kekistan
Posts: 4,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
This is how it is done in some other nations. Around like 14 or so if you are thinking of a trade you can stage a few different trades and if/when one turns you on then you can apprentice for part of your last few years of high school. Then when you finish school you have real world skills, connections and the certification that the leftists find so important.

I predict that this is the way of the future somehow as more and more employers, parents and students are viewing a college as a negitive rather than a positive.
The negative in college is the cost. I am sorry but if you ever look at the salaries that get paid at major colleges and Universities they are in fact pricing themselves out of business. Elizabeth Warren taught one class and had almost a half a million dollar a year salary from Harvard 2010-2011.
Thanks from Sabcat
guy39 is offline  
Old January 15th, 2018, 02:36 PM   #72
#freetommy
 
Sabcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 27,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
The negative in college is the cost. I am sorry but if you ever look at the salaries that get paid at major colleges and Universities they are in fact pricing themselves out of business. Elizabeth Warren taught one class and had almost a half a million dollar a year salary from Harvard 2010-2011.
That is not the only negitive but one of the major ones. Not only is the price dramatically inflated but the market is saturated w/ subpar diplomas. Schools have just become diploma and debt factories in turn creating a generation of indentured servants.

This can only occur because they are heavily subsidized by federal dollars. Since the leftists have been screaming and crying about college being a right the best way for the market to fight back against that is to stop using these worthless degrees as a metric for employment as many are starting to come around to.

Another way to fight back against this is to get the laws against IQ testing in employment screening removed.

Unions are also a large contributor to this issue.
Thanks from guy39
Sabcat is offline  
Old January 15th, 2018, 02:37 PM   #73
Senior Member
 
guy39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kekistan
Posts: 4,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
That is not the only negitive but one of the major ones. Not only is the price dramatically inflated but the market is saturated w/ subpar diplomas. Schools have just become diploma and debt factories in turn creating a generation of indentured servants.

This can only occur because they are heavily subsidized by federal dollars. Since the leftists have been screaming and crying about college being a right the best way for the market to fight back against that is to stop using these worthless degrees as a metric for employment as many are starting to come around to.

Another way to fight back against this is to get the laws against IQ testing in employment screening removed.

Unions are also a large contributor to this issue.
The fed needs to drastically reduce the amount they guarantee of student loans. Tuition cost would tumble
guy39 is offline  
Old January 15th, 2018, 02:51 PM   #74
#freetommy
 
Sabcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 27,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
The fed needs to drastically reduce the amount they guarantee of student loans. Tuition cost would tumble
Yup. I vote zero.

This would also force schools to tighten up student acceptance though i do not forsee this happening.

What i do see happening is thru the advancement of technology i see employers circumventing schools and recruiting young eager workers and training them from scratch. You get younger, more eager workers w/ specialized skills tailored to your needs who are free of the crushing debt that the schools provide.

Really what jobs does a BA actually prepare you for. I cannot think of any jobs outside of STEM fields that a college is actually necessary for. Most attorneys i know would say that their schooling could have been done w/o and that their time would have been better served just studying at a major firm under competent mentors.


Sure, if you want to study Shakespeare, or Picasso, lesbian basket weaving or whatever go for it but the people should not foot the bill.
Sabcat is offline  
Old January 15th, 2018, 03:40 PM   #75
Senior Member
 
xMathFanx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
The fed needs to drastically reduce the amount they guarantee of student loans. Tuition cost would tumble
Are you referring to Stafford Loans?
xMathFanx is offline  
Old January 15th, 2018, 03:44 PM   #76
Senior Member
 
guy39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kekistan
Posts: 4,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
Are you referring to Stafford Loans?
I am referring to any loan, albeit subsidized with interest payments or not, that guarantee a student loan with the tax payer being the guarantor.
guy39 is offline  
Old January 15th, 2018, 07:33 PM   #77
Senior Member
 
xMathFanx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
I am referring to any loan, albeit subsidized with interest payments or not, that guarantee a student loan with the tax payer being the guarantor.
Here is the thing about the current Stafford Loans program;

Now, given our current system, everyone has enough opportunity to find a way to attend a College for an Engineering, Statistics, Computer Science, Business, ect. degree that would potentially set them up for at least decent to good paying jobs after graduation. Even a completely poor person has an opportunity for this since there are Government Stafford Loans that everyone qualifies for, regardless of credit history, no co-signer needed, and is enough to first attend a Community College plus apartment (if you work part-time also) and later to a State School program or even to a University of Florida type school (depending on the tuition of the big state school program in one's respective state). From there, PhD programs are free, in fact, they pay you a stipend to attend. This is enough to set someone up for life (if used wisely--and they can ultimately get into nearly any major University by Grad School regardless of what they are confined to/able to attend for Undergraduate degree). Here are important points to note about the University system in the US (in regards to this topic):

1. There is a clear hierarchy in Academia, and it is wise to understand the "Game" in order to best play it
2. No matter what your previous grades/schooling have been like, there are ways you can still get into virtually any level program for your Undergrad still (including the Elite level schools)
3. No matter what Undergrad program you go to, there are ways to go to virtually any Grad School Program
3. Even if your financial resources are limited, there are ways to get into good schools and be able to pay for it all the way up through PhD
4. The level of school you attend is going to greatly effect how difficult the courses are, and thus the GPA you will be able to get
a) Community College will be at a very reasonable level of difficulty as will a Public State School Program
b) A school around the 100-150 level (national rank) will definitely be noticeably more challenging than CC or State School (for the same program)
c) A school around the 50 level will be very challenging and completely different than CC or State School level
d) A school at the Elite level (roughly the top 20) would require one to be at an elite level for that stage in order to pass (top few% or so of people inclined for that technical subject at that level)
5. In the modern era, there are countless resources available that thoroughly teach any given technical subject area for free or a limited fee, and would prove to be an invaluable asset in learning said material (either for formal training/school or self-study).

Now, if a person's true interests lie in Art History however since they are coming from a poor economic background, one would have enough money (if used wisely) to first get a degree in a practical subject (e.g. Business, Engineering, ect.) that would set them up with a decent/good paying job which they could function as a stepping stone and safety net that allows them to go back to College for the subject matter they are truly interested in and pursue that career path henceforth.

This is to say, although the current system is far from optimal and certainly does not have "equality of opportunity" in a strict sense, there currently are ways to reach the highest level outcomes even from the bottom of US society for anyone. Now, Stafford Loans are flawed (in my view) since the amount of money you are eligible to receive is only compatible with a State-School of low college ranking (unless you happen to live in a state such as Florida where the major Public University were only about $7000 tuition per year). However, if Stafford Loans (Government Loans) were expanded to say the Graduate school level of $18,000-20,000 per year (rather than $12,000) than regardless of State one is in, family financial background, ect. ect., any person would be afforded "Equality of Opportunity" as it pertained to going to College as they would have the means to attend a Major University for their Undergrad which opens the door for the highest possibilities after that point (i.e. to follow ones intellectual interests as a career path and/or acquire the credentials needed to land a high paying job--depending on what the individual values more). Furthermore, Stafford Loans apply to Trade Schools as well. Therefore, any person who is savvy enough to play the "game" wisely could either (A) attain even the highest levels of education in Academia (B ) attend a Trade School & get solid job training to become an Electrician, Plumber, Carpenter, ect. ect. which typically is 1-2 year programs that cost between $1000-$10,000 total and sets them up with a job which on average earn about $50,000 a year (a solid income).

Now, one of the staples of America is (ostensibly) the open/fair opportunity for all citizens toward economic/class mobility (up & down the latter) based upon how savvy they are at "playing the game" as well as how hard they are willing to work for their "spot". Stafford Loans (as current) go a long way toward fulfilling that "staple social contract" of America & if it were expanded just a bit more than currently, then it would completely satisfy that "social contract". Also, this would eliminate all arguments to the contrary--as in, nobody would be able to claim that "the system is holding them down perpetually" as it would be overtly false. Note, this also wouldn't cost much more at all compared to now, as it is only a several thousand dollar extension that (very likely) most people would not be savvy enough to capitalize on anyway. Compare that to the "Free College" program promoted by the Social Dems. that would be mandated in tax dollars, regardless of who is or is not using the system (which would cost orders of magnitude more money to fund in tax-payers' dollars). This would actually objectively create quite a "fair" socio-economic system as everyone has equal access to this opportunity regardless of race/class/gender/family structure/ect. ect. & it would be up to them (the individual) to do with it what they will (Note: it already is like that--however, as I explained previously, simply expanding this ever so slightly more would make an enormous difference (for reasons I explained)).

Here is a link to the Stafford Loan program in the US: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/l...dized#how-much
xMathFanx is offline  
Old January 16th, 2018, 03:53 AM   #78
Quid est veritas?
 
Peter the Roman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The heart of darkness
Posts: 503
As a soon-to-be high school graduate, next week in fact, I’m not planning on a four year college at all. The most I’m planning on is a two year community college. It’s just so much money to go, and there’s no guarantee that I’ll be able to pay it off. I’d rather not play that game and get stuck.
Peter the Roman is offline  
Old January 16th, 2018, 05:21 AM   #79
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,265
I was in tenth grade taking a required class of English literature. A homework assignment we were given was to memorize a Shakespearan Sonnet. Now, you may ask, what is a sonnet? Well a sonnet is a 14 line poem written in 16th Century English. There are I think over two hundred of them. Here is an example....

"No, Time, thou shalt not boast that I do change:
Thy pyramids built up with newer might
To me are nothing novel, nothing strange;
They are but dressings of a former sight.
Our dates are brief, and therefore we admire
What thou dost foist upon us that is old;
And rather make them born to our desire
Than think that we before have heard them told.
Thy registers and thee I both defy,
Not wondering at the present nor the past,
For thy records and what we see doth lie,
Made more or less by thy continual haste.
This I do vow, and this shall ever be,
I will be true, despite thy scythe and thee."

Now, for myself, I had my first job, and was 15 or 16 years old enjoying my teenage years as much as possible, and doing average stuff kids did in 1983 (the Good Old Days, you had Ike, we had Ronnie).

So I half assed studied one, and on the due date, had to stand in front of class to recite it, and I forgot most of it and failed. But as I took my seat, I got really indignant and pissed off at WHY this assignment was given. I screamed at that teacher (a black woman who disliked her mostly white students whose ancestors were living in mud huts throwing spears at wild game when this shit was written) that this crap was written hundreds of years ago, doesn't matter and would not help me get a job. She said something back on the lines of how dare I and all that and threatened to send me to the office, so I backed down because I didn't want my parents to find out (and my dad would have agreed with me, but gotten punished for raising hell in class). English literature and literature in general was pointless. I know how to read. I read all the time. I read encyclopedias and shit. High school, even the horrid Detroit City Schools on Wayne and Shithole Avenue require people to be able to read.

But I made a point, and going to high school and college, there are a lot of worthless classes that students are forced to take. When I was in college as a business major, we had to take a year of science. Why? I ended up taking geology which consisted myself and a bunch of bored freshman to be in some ancient underground lab looking at dirty ass rocks and having to know which one is what. Another doozy was "Art History" which required the student to know painting, as in, who painted it, what year, what style, what country and the name. For again, business and public administration students. The college said it was to give a "well rounded" education, but to me, it is just to make them more money. High school is where you learn art and science, and you shouldn't have to take any more of it, unless art or science is your major!
senor boogie woogie is offline  
Old January 16th, 2018, 06:18 AM   #80
Senior Member
 
tristanrobin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 23,915
Where your schools failed you was not in making you memorize a sonnet, but in teaching you how to appreciate the rewards and self-enrichment of understanding a sonnet.
Thanks from RNG
tristanrobin is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Education

Tags
college, decide, grads, high, isnít, school, worth



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Remarks by the First Lady at Discussion with High School and College Students The White House The White House 0 April 18th, 2014 05:40 AM
High court to decide on war memorial CNN Current Events 1 October 5th, 2009 10:53 AM
23% of Oklahoma High School Students waitingtables Current Events 9 September 21st, 2009 07:25 AM
High School Senior's Nude Photos Posted Around School tadpole256 Education 15 March 19th, 2007 07:00 AM
23% of Oklahoma High School Students Education 0 December 31st, 1969 04:00 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.