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Old January 11th, 2015, 02:00 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
The fly in the ointment here, is that the highly educated idiots that run the vast majority of our school systems, still "look" at the trades as being for dummies. I was working in the school system when the transition from trade school to tech college was taking place. The first thing the academics in charge did was kill all incentive for someone to become an instructor. They crippled the entire trade system. On top of having to have X years of in the field job experience you now had to have a masters degree in education to reach the top income level. No master degree ?? You were limited to a little over half the top pay scale, and the top scale wasn't that great to start with.

I actually provide annual update technical training for the tech college instructors in multiple states. To a person they complain that their biggest issue is the quality of the students they are given to teach.

Especially at the high school level, they still have that 1960's mind set. Shuffle the marginal students off to the trades. The worst is automotive. People just don't understand that todays cars have multiple computers controlling everything in the car. Yet they think some kid that can barely read and write is going to make a good mechanic.
We have, thankfully, moved past that point. At least in the three western province's school systems. More and more the tech schools and community colleges are getting the good students. Those who are looking to kill time at school so the Bank of Mom And Dad will keep paying the freight are going to university and that seems to be university's main purpose these days. Slightly too cynical, I know, but you get the drift.
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Old January 11th, 2015, 02:01 PM   #42
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I agree with lower cost colleges. In order to achieve that, we have to look at why college is costing so much. If we look at that, we find enormous amounts spend on beautifying college campuses, and wages paid to administrators. We also find colleges forcing classes on students that have nothing to do with their choice of intended careers , merely to drive up the colleges income.
I agree with you there !!!! 30 years ago my first wife had a scholarship that covered about 90%. One day after registration I took a long look at the "fees" we had just paid. She never once set foot in the gym or took any sort of phys ed classes, yet every quarter she had to pay an "athletic fee". That was but one of several fees that made no sense to me. I can only imagine what it must look like today.

You're right also. I see a great deal of money being spent (on the few campuses I've been on in the last few years) on things that have nothing to do with educating the students.
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Old January 11th, 2015, 06:15 PM   #43
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No, that is NOT the reason; the reason is to obtain a well-rounded EDUCATION. A college education is not intended to substitute for a trade school. The two should not be confused.
bingo. College is not for everyone, a Trade School gives opportunity for those that are not lead in the direction of one of the paths that a college education.

In fact I have a friend that dropped out of school in 8th grade... he finally got his GED went to an HVAC trade school now has is own AC and Refrigeration and air control business.

I have another that runs a Fire Sprinkler business he is hoping to become a part owner one day in the future

Neither personally or academically college would never have met their needs.

This is why TN's Educaiton plan includes trade school.
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Old January 11th, 2015, 06:19 PM   #44
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Actually, Tennessee has had a scholarship program, paid for by the state's participation in a couple of lotteries, for several years. The new program is simply an expansion of the existing programs and takes money from those existing programs.
Actually that is the HOPE program.

the 2 year community college/Trade Program for all is an extension of the lottery program.

Many states have programs similar to our Hope program, almost all have raided the program because it had so much extra monies, and the government cold not have that sitting around, and they had come to a desperate point that they needed it to service their debt.

TN has chosen to be Fiscally sound, and at this time has no need or desire to raid the fund, this is the security of not having massive debt.

Only if the state was TOTALLY debt free, what could be done with that blessing.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 09:14 AM   #45
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No, that is NOT the reason; the reason is to obtain a well-rounded EDUCATION. A college education is not intended to substitute for a trade school. The two should not be confused.
A well rounded education? By who's standards, the college? If I'm studying law, should I be forced to take classes unrelated to law? Shouldn't that be my choice as to whether or not I want to pay for an unrelated class, and not have it forced on me?
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Old January 12th, 2015, 09:22 AM   #46
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If they enforce at minimum a "C" high school average and insist on it being maintained while being financed through college, I'm ALL FOR IT 100% - I think it's shameful that our kids are being graduated from college with 100k+ school loans to pay back.
If your maintaining a C average, maybe you shouldn't be in college at our expense. What is the present amount of defaults on college debt? Who's paying for those defaults?
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Old January 12th, 2015, 10:12 AM   #47
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If your maintaining a C average, maybe you shouldn't be in college at our expense. What is the present amount of defaults on college debt? Who's paying for those defaults?

Ain't socialism grand? Free everything! For everybody!! No one has to pay!!!

Dummies out of pre-K-12 reading at 7th grade levels and now two free years of CC tacked on? Liberalism is a mental disorder.

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Old January 12th, 2015, 10:14 AM   #48
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For those worried about the cost, his proposal would only be $6b/year. It would only need to generate a 0.04% boost to the economy to pay for itself.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 10:17 AM   #49
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Yeah, right, that is the alleged cost at the start. And the history of federal programs is always higher, always more expensive.

Reading at 7th grade level indicates zero need for babysitting them in CC for another 2 years at taxpayers expense.


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Old January 12th, 2015, 10:19 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
If your maintaining a C average, maybe you shouldn't be in college at our expense.
Education does not only help increase the economic potential of the students with the best grades, it helps everybody. Most community college students don't have particularly good grades or else they'd be at a 4 year college, but on average, people with community college degrees increase your earnings by $126/week. That's $6,552/year or $262,080 for your lifetime if you work 40 years. That is far more than the cost of community college for 2 years.
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