September 1st, 2015, 12:47 PM  #11  
Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Between everywhere
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And if you are really skillful, you can make a lot of money at it. The technique has been perfected by organized religion for tens of centuries.  
 
September 1st, 2015, 12:54 PM  #12 
Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: El Paso, TX
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Everyone should read Gödel's incompleteness theorem. http://www.research.ibm.com/people/h...n00goedel.pdf It shows that math isn't divine, and besides it is one of the coolest things I have ever read with real twist at the end. 
September 1st, 2015, 01:02 PM  #13  
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September 1st, 2015, 01:08 PM  #14 
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 They have. When I was misdiagnosed as having cancer, before any of the treatments were contemplated, and in fact even before the testing started, all patients were sent for a mandatory "positive thinking" course. And they taught all the techniques that had shown to be effective. You might be interested to know that yoga was highly recommended. 
September 1st, 2015, 01:30 PM  #15  
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Gee, where have I heard that before? The one thing I have absolute faith in regarding God, and healing powers, is it has absolutely zero to do with any church, or organized religion. That is math of which I have no doubt. Interesting concept. I would like to see more evidence of it.  
September 1st, 2015, 05:23 PM  #16  
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September 1st, 2015, 05:34 PM  #17  
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I've observed that sometimes when people take up new, healthful activities such as yoga, or running, some people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s really bring to the activity the wrong "energy." They emanate the energy they done carry. They're in it to ameliorate their fear of death. It's written on their faces. And I've had enough time to watch, and see that many of these people seem to have above average numbers of ailments and conditions. I'm thinking the study I mentioned also noted this situation.  
September 1st, 2015, 05:47 PM  #18  
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September 2nd, 2015, 12:01 AM  #19  
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and i dont think divine math has much to do with it  
September 2nd, 2015, 01:15 AM  #20 
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 Actually Gödel's incompleteness theorem should be put in context. There are 3 things that destroyed the idea of "divine" math and science which are, in order, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, Gödel's incompleteness theorem, and quantum theory. Before these, the Enlightenment had produced such success that people felt that the power of math and science were limitless. This is the kind of human arrogance that the Bible warns against, but because math and science are fundamentally sound, they could actually prove their own limitations. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle says that by very act of observing a small object, one disturbs it which makes knowing its precise location and momentum impossible. This destroyed the Enlightenment fantasy of being able to precisely determine the future of a deterministic system. With the development of math, mathematicians worked hard to develop a perfect mathematical system where all true theorems could be proven from a set of axioms. Many attempts to do this were made. But then Gödel published his incompleteness theorem which mathematically proved that this is impossible. I read this paper a long time ago but what I remember is that Gödel mapped theorems to numbers and then developed theorems about these sets of numbers, and so was able to apply set theory to theorems themselves, and so he turned math on itself to prove that there will always be theorems that are true but are unprovable. Quantum theory is the most devastating in its effect on science. It says that tiny particles only really exist as a probability distribution of location and momentum. This is as far from determinism as one can get. It is also a violation of common sense. The doubleslit experiment proves quantum theory to be right and common sense to be wrong. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubleslit_experiment Quantum theory bring up basic philosophical issues. Philosophically it is very contrary to Plato's view of the world, but it fits perfectly with my view and the view of the Old Testament. I won't try to explain this here. I grew up on math and science, reading original papers like Gödel's. Math and science is what I did for fun, and I read the hard core stuff, not the popular fluff. Athena and others here embrace math and science as an alternative to religion because they really understand nothing; not math, not science, and not religion. I understand all of these which is why I support all of them, each for its own purpose. 

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