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Old January 7th, 2018, 04:48 PM   #101
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It's also important to not be ableist. Just because one has a disability, does not mean that they are incapable of performing well in school.

These cases vary significantly.


I do not know what abliest is and i dont want to.


If the kid passes 1st grade he goes to 2nd. If he passes 2nd grade he goes on to 3rd. So on and so forth. If this concept is applied equally to all students then all should be fine.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 04:54 PM   #102
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I do not know what abliest is and i dont want to.


If the kid passes 1st grade he goes to 2nd. If he passes 2nd grade he goes on to 3rd. So on and so forth. If this concept is applied equally to all students then all should be fine.
It means having a cognitive/learning disability =/= being unintelligent or not doing well at school.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 04:56 PM   #103
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It means having a cognitive/learning disability =/= being unintelligent.
That's true. But isn't there an argument for saying that diagnosis, if that term is applicable here, would be more likely in a setting with specialized teachers and aids like a special school?
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Old January 7th, 2018, 05:01 PM   #104
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That's true. But isn't there an argument for saying that diagnosis, if that term is applicable here, would be more likely in a setting with specialized teachers and aids like a special school?
I'm not against having special schools. I'm just saying that the autism spectrum and things of that nature are very wide, and these things vary significantly by individual.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 05:28 PM   #105
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Let me tell you a story. When I first started teaching, special needs children WERE separated. In fact, they were SO separated that children like those with Down Syndrome were HOUSED in portable classrooms nowhere NEAR an actual school building or playground. I was stunned. Beautiful, loving children of all ages were segregated because they learned and looked differently. Is that what we want?
Should we lock away children because they are different?? Should we keep them hidden? Of course not.
Gradually children with autism, blindness, deafness, cognitive/emotional impairment were mainstreamed. Most of these children were not violent or disruptive. Here's what happened. The unimpaired children worked WITH those "oddly" different children. They pushed their wheel chairs, tied their shoes, zipped their jackets, escorted them to lunch, mentored them and learned one of life's great lessons: every human life matters and deserves respect. In fact, some of my students were so impacted by their relationships with the disabled/cognitively impaired, they chose professions so they could make a difference--help those in need--physical therapists, speech therapists, nurses, social workers, etc.

Having said all that, there are caveats: Children with special needs must have aides, individualized instruction, improvement programs, well-trained special ed teachers...and lots of counseling for parents.

Can these children be disruptive? YOU BET. Can so-called "NORMAL" children be disruptive? Absolutely.
AND I'll add this. Some of the most brilliant students I ever had were the worst, most unruly, undisciplined kids you'd EVER want to know. Holy terrors.

So here are the questions. WHO should be mainstreamed? AND who should be segregated?
I have a cousin who's been a special needs teacher for a long time.

Her student the deliberately pooped her pants and then reached into them and threw poop at other students should not have been mainstreamed. When the teachers cleaned her, it took three of them, and they came out of the cleanup needing to clean up themselves.

If someone other than my cousin had told me this story, I'd have said "BS."
This student graduated from middle school last year. Thank goodness for my cousin and her co-workers.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 05:33 PM   #106
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It means having a cognitive/learning disability =/= being unintelligent or not doing well at school.
So its the new word for special needs, that was the new word for retarded, that was the new word for idiot, that was the new word for moronn...ad infinitum...?


I still dont think it matters.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 06:12 PM   #107
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So its the new word for special needs, that was the new word for retarded, that was the new word for idiot, that was the new word for moronn...ad infinitum...?


I still dont think it matters.
...And you completely missed the point.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 07:07 PM   #108
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...And you completely missed the point.
I honestly think i did.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 04:18 AM   #109
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It reduces school curriculums to just enough of what kids need to pass a test. Nobody actually learns anything of value (i.e. logic, critical thinking skills, etc.). It also doesn't take into account different learning styles, different kinds of intelligence, etc. I didn't realize how badly I was cheated out of an education until I came to college.

When I was in middle school, they actually got rid of history in order to accommodate test prep classes. A subject that I was actually interested in got axed just so schools can improve their test scores.
If they can pass a real math test (not this multiple choice crap) and have to show their work on how they formulated the equation..

Or diagram sentences, once again not multiple choice test.

In school I very rarely had a multiple choice testing in school the first real multiple choice tests I had was my ACT.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 08:47 AM   #110
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I have a cousin who's been a special needs teacher for a long time.

Her student the deliberately pooped her pants and then reached into them and threw poop at other students should not have been mainstreamed. When the teachers cleaned her, it took three of them, and they came out of the cleanup needing to clean up themselves.

If someone other than my cousin had told me this story, I'd have said "BS."
This student graduated from middle school last year. Thank goodness for my cousin and her co-workers.
Unfortunately, some students have bowel problems, but this case is beyond a bowel problem. I question the good of teachers cleaning this child? Unless it has been determined the parent is unfit, perhaps the child should be removed from the room and held in safe place until the parents can pick the child up? I mean both parents, because too often one of the parents is not being held responsible for the behavior of a child, and both parents need to be held responsible.

Perhaps in general parents should be held responsible for their children's behavior and the school should not be held responsible for this. Doesn't anyone see something wrong with the state being held responsible for the behavior of someone's child? I am not saying we should withhold resources from families in need, but that responsibility needs to fall on the parents, not the state. If a child is disruptive the child needs to be removed and it is the parents who need to deal with the problem.

I have a big problem with what I said, because often it is the parents who are the problem and we want to save the child from bad parenting, but doesn't that look frighteningly like a police state? I don't have the answer, but from my experience, I would say the extended family can be helpful and perhaps we should encourage this instead of making it legal impossible for the extended family to help. I had an extremely bad experience with state control over my daughter (school and education for a technological society) and then my grandchildren (made wards of the state), and I am radical about this subject.
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Last edited by Athena; January 8th, 2018 at 08:51 AM.
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