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Old January 8th, 2018, 03:26 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
The cause of that is the WELFARE STATE.. Children have been indoctrinated to believe that GOVERNMENT is the solution to most if not all of their problems.

So now these Children are now parents, now they think that the GOVERNMENT is responsible for Indoctrinating their children, instead of the parents taking responsibility, we are in our 3rd or 4th generation of this cycle. There is no surprise many parents do not become involved in their children's education.

That is why Home Schooling out performs private schooling, which out performs public schooling.

if a parent is totally responsible for their child's education they become very involved, join homeschooling co-ops, they are more involved if they are paying for the education out of their pockets direction as in private schooling, too many perceive that public schooling is free and the government is responsible for teaching them the parenets, and also public school tells the parents when they have an issue to butt out and the parents at much to passive in their response to the butt out demands.


How ridiculous! Children are not indoctrinated to think the government will take care of them. Most children have NO IDEA what that even means.

IF homeschooled students (and that's a BIG IF) outperform their public school peers there are MANY MANY reasons why.
1) Public Schools take every child, which includes children with disabilities and special needs. How do you think THEIR test scores compare??
2) Public Schools educate over 90% of our population.
3) Class sizes are 25-30. Homeschool classes are half that size.
4) Statistics on public school student performances are provided by administrators. Stats on homeschooled students are provided BY homeschool parents/networks.
5) Statistics are skewed because we simply can’t draw any conclusions about the academic performance of the “average homeschooler,” because none of the studies so often cited employ random samples representing the full range of homeschoolers.
6) Stats become irrelevant because correcting for things like race, income, and family background, which means that the statistics as reported and commonly touted don’t actually say anything other than those students from white, two-parent, middle-class families do better academically than the average student, which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

I have no problem with homeschooling IF the parents follow the prescribe curriculum and have the qualifications to actually TEACH. The networks DO help, but eventually, I have to question parents teaching their OWN children AND the parent's bias. CAN parents teach chemistry, biology, technology, foreign languages, physics, calculus, music, visual arts......? AND can parents issue a H.S. diploma from an accredited institution? Can a graduate be accepted into college with a homeschooled diploma?

Now I realize there are online classes and other ways to overcome these issues, BUT there is no way homeschooling prepares students for the real world. They've been kept swaddled in cotton for too long.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 03:51 PM   #122
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Athena, many words that WERE acceptable (years ago) are no longer allowable--they simply ARE NOT justified. I'm sure you can think of all sorts of words that we no longer use, and IF we do it is used as a slur. I'm thinking of racist, sexual, ethnic and insulting terms.

Our culture is changing--hopefully evolving--from a time when our ignorance seemed to take center stage. Let's keep moving forward.
If you make a word "socially unacceptable" one will be created to take its place. I remember in like 4th grade i contextually replaced "fuck you" w/ "thank you" it cought on by the end of the quarter we were not allowed to thank each other in class. Kids now call the idiots "internet explorer" because it is slow and obsolete.

The language police cannot win because people need to tell each other to fuck off. Stupid people get stupid prizes.

This is a major problem w/ millennials. Nobody has ever punched them in the face, told them they were stupid. They were not allowed to fail. Now they are 30 and in culture shock.

The kids in school have more fun triggering the teachers than fellow students. Many of them are very fragile.



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You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're all singing, all dancing crap of the world.


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Old January 8th, 2018, 05:43 PM   #123
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How ridiculous! Children are not indoctrinated to think the government will take care of them. Most children have NO IDEA what that even means.

IF homeschooled students (and that's a BIG IF) outperform their public school peers there are MANY MANY reasons why.
1) Public Schools take every child, which includes children with disabilities and special needs. How do you think THEIR test scores compare??
2) Public Schools educate over 90% of our population.
3) Class sizes are 25-30. Homeschool classes are half that size.
4) Statistics on public school student performances are provided by administrators. Stats on homeschooled students are provided BY homeschool parents/networks.
5) Statistics are skewed because we simply can’t draw any conclusions about the academic performance of the “average homeschooler,” because none of the studies so often cited employ random samples representing the full range of homeschoolers.
6) Stats become irrelevant because correcting for things like race, income, and family background, which means that the statistics as reported and commonly touted don’t actually say anything other than those students from white, two-parent, middle-class families do better academically than the average student, which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

I have no problem with homeschooling IF the parents follow the prescribe curriculum and have the qualifications to actually TEACH. The networks DO help, but eventually, I have to question parents teaching their OWN children AND the parent's bias. CAN parents teach chemistry, biology, technology, foreign languages, physics, calculus, music, visual arts......? AND can parents issue a H.S. diploma from an accredited institution? Can a graduate be accepted into college with a homeschooled diploma?

Now I realize there are online classes and other ways to overcome these issues, BUT there is no way homeschooling prepares students for the real world. They've been kept swaddled in cotton for too long.
They are not indoctrinated, really. We are having children expelled for drawing a PICTURE OF A GUN.. Elemetry school children threatened with being labeled a sex offender for hugging another child on VALENTINES DAY.\

Climate Science proving that Global warming is a natural event is being censored.



Please stop peeing on my pants and telling me it is raining.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 06:17 PM   #124
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Oh, oh, maybe I should put myself in time-out because you have triggered my fight or flight response. This in no way is your fault and that is why I am being honest about my feelings. It is my school history that inflames how I feel, not you.

Have you ever attempted to communicate a problem with a school? Trying to resolve a problem with a school is the height of ambition, like a flee climbing up the leg of an elephant with the intent of rape. The school is run by policy and that policy is set without our consent nor our input and our concerns are not welcomed.

Our schools are bureaucracies and bureaucracies are like giant amoebas. They consume everything and what they can not assimilate they spit out. This keeps the bureaucracy alive and prevents change. It is no wonder we have a poor understanding of democracy and feel disenfranchised.
I feel for you. If you truly fought the good fight and lost, I applaud you and can certainly sympathize as we've all been there to some degree.

It's funny, I just had this very discussion with my brother last year. He was telling me that one of his step kids (he has 7 and they're all grown) was seriously contemplating taking their kids out of the local school system. Of course my first question was why ?? The answer was because they're teaching ISLAM !!!!

Now, if this were Michigan, Illinois or Wisconsin all of whom have sizable Muslim populations I might have believed it, or at least that it was possible. However, this was LOUISIANA the ONLY state that did not take Obama's "dirty deficit exploding stimulus money". Their roads are shit and getting worse, their school are marginal, and many of their state and local employees are so poorly paid they qualify for FOOD STAMPS and WIC at the minimum. Some times more !

You also have to remember this is Duck Dynasty territory !!!! Most of my extended family live up there, and the last time I saw them they were lamenting the show being taken off the air. They thought it was utterly brilliant. That one of them has an MBA, none of them had beards before the show and it was all at least partially scripted, is completely irrelevant to them.

I find it extremely difficult to believe they're actually trying to teach Islam to the local children. My suspicion is that they are trying to cover some sort of world history or civics. It is impossible to discuss the middle east WITHOUT some discussion of Islam, as their entire societies and legal systems are based on their religion.

I asked if they had spoken to the school system and they swore they had, but ONLY as individuals. When I asked if they had discussed it with the church they attend almost every Sunday, all I got were wide eyed stares. When I asked if they had contacted the PTA or sought out other parents with similar concerns, again no response.

These people had ONE meeting with the school principal and basically gave up !! I'm not even sure what curriculum they looked at. They're perfectly willing to whine, bitch, piss and moan without putting forth even a modest effort. The irony here is, these are the very same people you will hear bitching about NOT having prayer in school and calling it a Christmas beak, NOT a "winter break".

I can't remember if I was still in school or if it was the year after I graduated that my local schools in Alabama stopped all prayer in school. It stopped in my town as the result of a local law suit. SCOTUS had ruled more than a decade earlier, but that hadn't stopped the locals from continuing to do exactly what they had always done.

I can't imagine the courage and strength it took for a Muslim immigrant to walk into a local court house in south Alabama only 10 or 11 years after desegregation and file a law suit bucking the desires of every other church in town. Agree with him or not, that's courage and fighting fro your child's rights.

Yet in my inlaws case, they are members of the largest religion in this county yet lack the resolve of their convictions to do more than a single meeting.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 07:33 AM   #125
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Calling someone retarded isn't really respectful unless it's in a joking manner.
I see there is a problem understanding my justification for using the word "retarded". Being retarded is just a fact of life and nothing is wrong with the word. What is wrong is the spirit of the person who uses the word to hurt others, but if a teacher is trying to reassure a parent a child will do well with some extra help, the word "retarded" is an accurate word to use. To be technically correct we might say your child needs to be evaluated for- and then there is a long list of possible labels. I think this labeling of children has some serious drawbacks!

Here is my logic. Identifying the word as the problem, does not resolve the problem. The problem is human nature, not the word. Unless you are speaking a foreign language and meant to tell a girl "I think you are pretty" but instead said "I think you are a pig" because your friend gave you the wrong word.

Can we talk more about nihilism? I think our technological society has become nihilistic, and education that focuses on preparing children for a technological society with unknown values is failing to prepare them for life.
Children and adults will say mean things. Something is wrong with their spirit and that is what needs correcting. When we correctly identify problems, we can resolve them.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 07:44 AM   #126
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How ridiculous! Children are not indoctrinated to think the government will take care of them. Most children have NO IDEA what that even means.

IF homeschooled students (and that's a BIG IF) outperform their public school peers there are MANY MANY reasons why.
1) Public Schools take every child, which includes children with disabilities and special needs. How do you think THEIR test scores compare??
2) Public Schools educate over 90% of our population.
3) Class sizes are 25-30. Homeschool classes are half that size.
4) Statistics on public school student performances are provided by administrators. Stats on homeschooled students are provided BY homeschool parents/networks.
5) Statistics are skewed because we simply can’t draw any conclusions about the academic performance of the “average homeschooler,” because none of the studies so often cited employ random samples representing the full range of homeschoolers.
6) Stats become irrelevant because correcting for things like race, income, and family background, which means that the statistics as reported and commonly touted don’t actually say anything other than those students from white, two-parent, middle-class families do better academically than the average student, which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

I have no problem with homeschooling IF the parents follow the prescribe curriculum and have the qualifications to actually TEACH. The networks DO help, but eventually, I have to question parents teaching their OWN children AND the parent's bias. CAN parents teach chemistry, biology, technology, foreign languages, physics, calculus, music, visual arts......? AND can parents issue a H.S. diploma from an accredited institution? Can a graduate be accepted into college with a homeschooled diploma?

Now I realize there are online classes and other ways to overcome these issues, BUT there is no way homeschooling prepares students for the real world. They've been kept swaddled in cotton for too long.
Oh dear, I hate disagreeing with you but yes, children are being prepared to rely on authority exactly as German children were prepared to rely on authority and there are very serious social, economic and political ramifications to this. In German, the manifestation of this education was called the New World Order. The Bush family liked the term New World Order when referring to the power of the US. However, it was Eisenhower who labeled this the Military Industrial Complex and we have prepared our young for the Military Industrial Complex ever since the 1958 National Defense Education was passed.

The first step was to destroy our national heroes because they were role models of individualism. Along with this is replacing education for Independent thinking, with "group think" and preparing everyone to rely on authority because this is the fastest way to develop technology. It includes merit hiring and reliance on authority, and this reliance on authority becomes a power shift that is very detrimental to our democracy.

I hope we can discuss this more fully.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 07:48 AM   #127
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I feel for you. If you truly fought the good fight and lost, I applaud you and can certainly sympathize as we've all been there to some degree.

It's funny, I just had this very discussion with my brother last year. He was telling me that one of his step kids (he has 7 and they're all grown) was seriously contemplating taking their kids out of the local school system. Of course my first question was why ?? The answer was because they're teaching ISLAM !!!!
I am not understanding. Do you think something is wrong with teaching Islam?

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Yet in my inlaws case, they are members of the largest religion in this county yet lack the resolve of their convictions to do more than a single meeting.
Are you saying their conviction should be to end freedom of religion and promote ignorance of others? How do you "feel" about this? If your gut could talk, want would it say? Like if my wording of question is used, how could they justify fighting for their position?
Thanks from Clara007

Last edited by Athena; January 10th, 2018 at 07:57 AM.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 08:15 AM   #128
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They are not indoctrinated, really. We are having children expelled for drawing a PICTURE OF A GUN.. Elemetry school children threatened with being labeled a sex offender for hugging another child on VALENTINES DAY.\

Climate Science proving that Global warming is a natural event is being censored.
I think you are making a good point. I think we are moving more and more in the direction of paranoia as Richard M. Brickner, M.D. defined paranoia in his 1943 book "Is Germany Incurable?" He defined paranoia as an excessive need to be superior and in control. I most certainly see that happening and believe our democracy as seriously threaten as Germany's democracy under the control of Prussia.

The US has replaced classical Greek and Roman philosophy with German philosophy and adopted the German (Prussian) model of bureaucracy and education. We are what we defended our democracy against, and Trump is our Hitler, not because Trump is Trump, but because the masses have been prepared for this. Now we can only hope he does not start the third world war, and hope that a raised political consciousness leads to change. But nothing much can change, without returning our education to what Eisenhower call our domestic education. That is a return to the classical education that is the foundation of our democracy. Only when our democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 10:40 AM   #129
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I see there is a problem understanding my justification for using the word "retarded". Being retarded is just a fact of life and nothing is wrong with the word. What is wrong is the spirit of the person who uses the word to hurt others, but if a teacher is trying to reassure a parent a child will do well with some extra help, the word "retarded" is an accurate word to use. To be technically correct we might say your child needs to be evaluated for- and then there is a long list of possible labels. I think this labeling of children has some serious drawbacks!

Here is my logic. Identifying the word as the problem, does not resolve the problem. The problem is human nature, not the word. Unless you are speaking a foreign language and meant to tell a girl "I think you are pretty" but instead said "I think you are a pig" because your friend gave you the wrong word.

Can we talk more about nihilism? I think our technological society has become nihilistic, and education that focuses on preparing children for a technological society with unknown values is failing to prepare them for life.
Children and adults will say mean things. Something is wrong with their spirit and that is what needs correcting. When we correctly identify problems, we can resolve them.
I totally disagree with you on the use of retarded. It has a long history of being used as an insult, not a clinical description. I'd say from where I stand, negro is way less of an insult than retarded. But we don't use that either.

What is wrong with "special needs"? Retarded is not a one size fits all term and neither is special needs. But so what. Retarded has a lot of bad stuff firmly attached to it.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 11:56 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
They are not indoctrinated, really. We are having children expelled for drawing a PICTURE OF A GUN.. Elemetry school children threatened with being labeled a sex offender for hugging another child on VALENTINES DAY.\

Climate Science proving that Global warming is a natural event is being censored.



Please stop peeing on my pants and telling me it is raining.


So your definition of "indoctrination" is teaching 1) Guns are our friends and let's have a "bring a friend to school" day. 2) Hugs are appropriate at all times and for all people, regardless of what the "hugee" thinks. 3) Global warming is a hoax so ignore the science.

But mostly you're upset because you are a RW political wonk and unable to grasp the concept that OTHERS don't agree with you??
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