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Old March 5th, 2018, 08:43 AM   #81
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It is ridiculous that the person who makes my coffee in the morning holds a four year degree and the astronomical debt that goes along w/ it. I believe that it is criminal that we just push kids into college and debt for no other reason than it "is what you have to do to survive"
@Sabcat

I agree--although this (largely) displays a failure of parenting/proper guidance on the part of the adult population. They are (overwhelmingly) the ones demanding that the kids 'drink that Kool-Aid' (i.e. that going to College directly after High School is the best, and in fact only, way to the 'Middle-Class'). It suggests that the kids have a very poor understanding of how to best play the 'chess board' of their life, based on the American structured rules; which, ultimately, is highly suggestive of poor guidance growing up. For instance, my local Community College costs only $1,500 per semester, and there are about 15 or so Associates Degrees (2 year programs) which will qualify a person for $40,000-$70,000 jobs--that is one hell of an input-output ratio compared to the 'traditional'/conformist advice given to the kids. Also, the credits apply equally in all areas, so once one gets an Associates Degree in one area, it is much easier/shorter route to get another in a related area. Then, a young adult could build up several such degrees while still very young (i.e. low twenties) at which point it would become nearly inconceivable they would not always have a solid paying job to fall back on for the rest of their lives--all without paying the absurd 4 year cost directly out of High School (btw, it is generally not '4 years' anymore, but often well more than 4). Furthermore, the A.S. degrees set up if they ever did want to pursue more advanced degrees, then they have a good chunk of the B.A./B.S. completed already without the first half cost; then, they could make that decision when they are closer to mid twenties range and actually able to think clearly about it.

That is quite a long-winded response, however it is purposed to detail how the situation you described is really a large-scale societal failing--from the parents, community members/adults, school academic advisors, 'journalists' (who somehow can't figure it out and put solid information out there), the young adults themselves for behaving very recklessly (signing these Indentured Servitude documents without considering what that means post-graduation; and depending on their age (that is, I don't blame people who are teenagers or low to possibly mid twenties, however once you hit around mid-twenties to late twenties, regardless of whether you led astray by your parents/adults/society/ect., at some point one has to take responsibility for their ability or lack thereof to see the 'chess board' of their life accurately and play a 'good game'--even if they were f'cked over in the first few rounds or so), ect. ect.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 09:12 AM   #82
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As for your pre-recorded lectures exc... i believe that is the future of "k-12" we have the internet now. Why shouldn't the children all have the best of the best teacing them. There is so much wasted resorces on how the school system is currently set up. It is archaic.

@Sabcat

Yes--you are right. Again, from personal experience, I used to attend all of my lectures for my Mathematics/Sci. courses which added up to be in class all day several days a week. Then, after a couple years, it dawned on me--all of the learning I was doing was nearly 100% outside the classroom from pre-recorded video lectures (such as MITOpencourseware, ect.), online YouTube tutors, textbook, ect. So, why even bother attending class? Now, I just get a copy of the syllabus, follow along with the schedule, and show up in person just to turn in homework assignments and take the tests--my scores are just the same or even better (as it is much less stressful/more relaxing). I would have done it the whole time through if I knew better before.

However, the College/University system will never admit this because it would destroy their business model--as in, why would I have to pay so much money just to learn all this material for free online, and then take an administered test (which should not cost much money at all) to prove proficiency? Why do I have to move to the other side of the State (or Country) just to learn all this on my laptop in my apartment? It is scam, honestly--and, I would think, it is only an amount of time before a sufficient amount of people catch-on to it enough to challenge the status-quo.

Note: Also, again for emphasis, there are very, very few people in the World (relative to the population at large) qualified to do the kind of work/research my Professors do--then why are 'we' (i.e. the Universities) demanding they waste their time on Undergrads like me in lecture, when we (Undergrads) could just be learning all this independently/co-dependently (i.e. collaboratively with each other and perhaps some tutors who have taken the material already) on our time just as or, rather, much more efficiently than the traditional format?
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Old March 5th, 2018, 09:30 AM   #83
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@Sabcat

Yes--you are right. Again, from personal experience, I used to attend all of my lectures for my Mathematics/Sci. courses which added up to be in class all day several days a week. Then, after a couple years, it dawned on me--all of the learning I was doing was nearly 100% outside the classroom from pre-recorded video lectures (such as MITOpencourseware, ect.), online YouTube tutors, textbook, ect. So, why even bother attending class? Now, I just get a copy of the syllabus, follow along with the schedule, and show up in person just to turn in homework assignments and take the tests--my scores are just the same or even better (as it is much less stressful/more relaxing). I would have done it the whole time through if I knew better before.

However, the College/University system will never admit this because it would destroy their business model--as in, why would I have to pay so much money just to learn all this material for free online, and then take an administered test (which should not cost much money at all) to prove proficiency? Why do I have to move to the other side of the State (or Country) just to learn all this on my laptop in my apartment? It is scam, honestly--and, I would think, it is only an amount of time before a sufficient amount of people catch-on to it enough to challenge the status-quo.

Note: Also, again for emphasis, there are very, very few people in the World (relative to the population at large) qualified to do the kind of work/research my Professors do--then why are 'we' (i.e. the Universities) demanding they waste their time on Undergrads like me in lecture, when we (Undergrads) could just be learning all this independently/co-dependently (i.e. collaboratively with each other and perhaps some tutors who have taken the material already) on our time just as or, rather, much more efficiently than the traditional format?

I have been heavily involved in my kids education since before they walked into a school. I watch it all and feel so bad for the kids whos only real guidance is coming from the institution but it is what it is.

Shit MIT and Mises university both have more lectures on line then i can absorb and those are just my current interests. The time when the universities hold the keys to the worlds knowledge is over.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 09:51 AM   #84
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Shit MIT and Mises university both have more lectures on line then i can absorb and those are just my current interests. The time when the universities hold the keys to the worlds knowledge is over.
@Sabcat

They no longer hold the key to the worlds knowledge, however they still hold the key to the prize positions (mostly, that is). If more parents/adults were aware of this as you are, then the system would collapse in no time--as nobody in their right mind would pay $100,000+ for instruction/information that is free online, libraries, ect., and actually, more efficient in many ways. For instance, at Uni., questions generally are not fielded aside from a select few, as there would not be nearly enough time to get through the material if everyone asked all the questions on their mind. However, online, there are an abundance of YouTube tutors (and other sources) that break-down/explore nearly every conceivable sub-topic, which caters to an individual students needs.

An aside (but connected): Any thoughts on "Good Will Hunting", in this respect?
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Old March 5th, 2018, 09:59 AM   #85
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As for your pre-recorded lectures exc... i believe that is the future of "k-12" we have the internet now. Why shouldn't the children all have the best of the best teacing them. There is so much wasted resorces on how the school system is currently set up. It is archaic.

@Sabcat

Although your suggestion is quite logical, I do not think this is even in the realm of possibilities at the moment (or any conceivable short/moderate-term future) as I do not believe k-12 is even intended to be for 'real education'. Rather, it is a state-sponsored day-care center where they (by law) round up the kids, put them in a big jungle gym together, and construct formal structures in an attempt to ensure conformity and assimilation into the current societal set-up will occur during and post-graduation (i.e. they do not want any 'boat rockers'). Quite honestly, it is a deeply, deeply immoral system--as it is currently structured, at least.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 10:10 AM   #86
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@Sabcat

Although your suggestion is quite logical, I do not think this is even in the realm of possibilities at the moment (or any conceivable short/moderate-term future) as I do not believe k-12 is even intended to be for 'real education'. Rather, it is a state-sponsored day-care center where they (by law) round up the kids, put them in a big jungle gym together, and construct formal structures in an attempt to ensure conformity and assimilation into the current societal set-up will occur during and post-graduation (i.e. they do not want any 'boat rockers'). Quite honestly, it is a deeply, deeply immoral system--as it is currently structured, at least.
I agree 100% and why i heavily support the unschooling movement and the voucher system. Though my kids went to public school i do not believe they would be nearly as successful if i was not granted the luxury of spending as much time w/ them. So many people still are under the impression that children are getting "what they need" there.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 11:12 AM   #87
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I agree 100% and why i heavily support the unschooling movement and the voucher system.
@Sabcat

I am not familiar with the systems you mentioned--though I will look into it.

Thoughts on Home-schooling?
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Old March 5th, 2018, 12:23 PM   #88
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@Sabcat

I am not familiar with the systems you mentioned--though I will look into it.

Thoughts on Home-schooling?
Home schooling can be hit or miss depending on the parents. Unschooling is basically homeschooling just a more organic approach especially in the younger years. Vouchers would do wonders for the movment.

Ten families can get together and split the educational needs of their children and each toss $10k a year at it. They can easily hire a private tutor for their kids and pay them well above what the state is paying teachers. With the combination of the tutor, the parents and the wealth of knowledge available today the children would be light years ahead of state schools.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 01:09 PM   #89
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Home schooling can be hit or miss depending on the parents. Unschooling is basically homeschooling just a more organic approach especially in the younger years. Vouchers would do wonders for the movment.

Ten families can get together and split the educational needs of their children and each toss $10k a year at it. They can easily hire a private tutor for their kids and pay them well above what the state is paying teachers. With the combination of the tutor, the parents and the wealth of knowledge available today the children would be light years ahead of state schools.
So, your "plan" is pretty much only for pretty well off people.
How many families can afford $10,000.00 net money out of their annual income? Many families have an annual income of $40,000.00 or less, $10k is 25% of that.
You're talking early 19th century systems. Hey, let's get together and slap up a log cabin, hire the widow Jones to teach, each family can take turns providing her with room and board. Let's pay her in chickens and bushels of corn.
Fuck the poor.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 02:20 PM   #90
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Home schooling can be hit or miss depending on the parents. Unschooling is basically homeschooling just a more organic approach especially in the younger years. Vouchers would do wonders for the movment.

Ten families can get together and split the educational needs of their children and each toss $10k a year at it. They can easily hire a private tutor for their kids and pay them well above what the state is paying teachers. With the combination of the tutor, the parents and the wealth of knowledge available today the children would be light years ahead of state schools.
BTW, does the family with 4 school age children pay the same $10,000.00/year as the family with one?
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