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Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:56 AM   #31
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quote Xmathfanx... People have been strongly primed to believe that magical type thinking is "wonderful", "beautiful", "interesting", "hopeful", "fun" ect. due to things like Sana Claus, Easter Bunny, Superhero tv/comics, Harry Potter type Sci-Fi, ect. ect. Although these things in-and-of-themselves are not harmful (and can be enriching in many ways), when combined with not being exposed to the real world, how it actually is and the methods by which we have determined our limited range of knowledge thus far, then the magic show becomes extremely pernicious. Also, the majority of adults are so attached to their infantile superstitious beliefs that they think learning science is "dry", "scary", "cold", "devoid of any deep meaning/feeling" and don't want their kids to learn it either for these reasons. This combination confines children to the mind-space of the Mammal Snow Globe rather than what me know of the Real World thus far.
This is how we need to understand thinking and with publicly funded education, that is absolutely no good excuse for us not understanding this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjVQJdIrDJ0

Now that is a lengthy explanation and you might want to skippy the 5 minute introduction or google "fast and slow thinking" and get a short explanation, but if you are serious about this discussion and human progress, you will want to know much more about how we think than you probably know now because this guy and his realizations have not been around that long. This is relatively new information about how humans think. Education might be a whole better if we all understood how our brains work.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 08:35 AM   #32
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quote by Xmathfanx... Now, after people hit a certain age there is going to be a level of courage required of people in order to break free of the Mammal Snow Globe World for which they have always resided. We are in difficult times because we cannot allow people to program their children with this primitive mindset and we also cannot force them to teach their children a certain way either without becoming completely tyrannical. Even people who have the potential to be intelligent (or highly-intelligent) and make real contributions to society/progress are being reduced to half-mentally disabled, chimp-human hybrids (i.e. never fully progress/develop our of being merely a Mammal and toward a Homo Sapien, so to speak--"Mammalhood") that are destroying society/the upcoming generations (and it is sad/alarming because I have seen a lot of this at Uni. particularly in the technical subjects). The overwhelming bulk of the adult population are oblivious to just how breathtakingly unrespectable people they are for indoctrinating their kids into their bullsh't instead of having the courage to face reality (as we currently understand it) as well as how they comport themselves in life more broadly.
You are speaking of education for technology preparing everyone for the Military Industrial Complex, what we defended our democracy against in two world wars, and what Germany learned not to be.


Before this education, we had liberal education that was focused on preparing our young to be good citizens and helping them discover their individual talents and interest so they could realize their unique potential and make their best contribution to society.

We replaced our model for education with the German/Prussian model in 1958. The National Defense Education Act stopped transmitting the culture we had, and literally began preparing everyone for the Military Industrial Complex, the mechanical society we destroyed in the last world war, and then became what we destroyed, and Trump's bragging about making us great again, and increasing military spending does not bring us back to the culture and nation and world leader we once were.

It is not just about a change in education but also a change in bureaucratic order and how people are assimilated into society or are marginalized. There are good reasons for adopting the Prussian model of bureaucracy, and if we only changed the organization of bureaucracy, things might be really good. However, to change both the organization of bureaucracy and education, means the end of what that for which we stood, liberty and justice for all, and actualizing the enlightenment ideal of raising the human potential. In the New World Order, no one needs to think because everything is controlled by policy and all the people need do is learn a skill that fits into the mechanical society, and obey, the policymakers will manage everything from there. If you want to pierce your nose with a ring, or dye your hair blue, or pretend you are Batman or the Joker, it doesn't matter, so long as you fit in and do as you are told. That is, we can be as different as the Moppets as long as we follow the director and stay within our assigned role in the human drama, but we are not to direct the show or think differently. Individuality meaning superficially different, not intellectually different. "good job", "perfect". We are imitating the GD computer programs with our phrases and behaviors!

Welcome to our technological society with unknown values. This is what we have educated for since 1958.

The Eisenhower administration embedded the Military Industrial Complex, Reagon was glad to make it stronger, Bush was glad to lead it, and now Trump is our new Hitler making life better for us if we like or not. All we need do is obey, just like the good Germans under Prussian control actualizing the Hegelian ideal of the state being God and everyone fitting in his place and obeying.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 06:20 AM   #33
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@Athena

Thank you for your detailed response, I think you have made a number of strong observations. Note, this is a preliminary statement to a larger reply I will be making in the next few days, as I am interested in exploring this topic with you at length.

Also, you mentioned Daniel Kahneman's work in one of your responses. I am familiar with the material you are referencing and have actually met Daniel Kahneman in person a few years ago at the World Science Festival in New York City (I would be interested in discussing this topic with you as well, at some length).

Looking forward to our future correspondence,

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Old January 14th, 2018, 05:27 AM   #34
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Yes, the public schools are indoctrination centers. They do not focus at all on abstract thinking, problem solving, life skills or in reality anything truly useful beyond probably 5th grade. It is basic memorize, regurgitate and forget. Rinse and repeat. Their goal is to create C students. Worker bees. Unquestioning wage slaves. College is even worse these days as these children who many only real guidance in life tell them that it is a necessity for their future survival then jump into tens sometimes hundrids of dollars into debt for absolutely useless degrees.

Now the schools do not even try to hide their obvious political agenda as leftism is directly part of the curriculum and much of the staff is openly radically political.

Common core has made this even worse. Our schools last year decided to adopt common core mathematics, well it is a completely different approach to mathematics not only did the kids have no idea what this gobbldy gook was but neither did the teachers. They spent the majority of a semester just learning what was going to be on the tests.

Epic fail.
@Sabcat

You make many strong observations. I agree with your point about children in the upcoming generations be sold a lie that they "must" immediately jump into College programs after High School, and thus tens of thousands of dollars in debt (or even over one hundred-thousand) however I disagree that colleges on the whole are even worse than High School--I think they are a notable step up.

High School is essentially a glorified Day-Care service for parents to drop off their kids, and (overwhelmingly) the parents do not seem at all concerned about the blatant abuses occurring while they are there (in fact, the parents generally encourage it).

In College, the knowledge of a given topic attained by the Professors is markedly better than that of the k-12 teacher instructors (who are in many/most cases, completely unqualified for their field--particularly when you get into High School and the topics are involved comparatively). Students are typically confronted by their first taste of various fields and real intellectualism generally. Now, there are plenty of issues with the University system regardless of the monetary/debt problem, however it is still miles apart from High School.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 05:38 AM   #35
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PS just read I am in a state of shock that someone who sees this besides me. I think there is something deep in our culture at the moment that is drawing us away from reasoning and into destructive power plays.
@Athena

In order for one to understand that the (sane) Professors are perpetually "biting their tongues" in various areas, then this necessitates knowledge of the "in-the-closet" game that is going on. That is, only people who have "forbidden" knowledge will notice this going on, most of the students who haven't been exposed to such information/world-view shifts will be oblivious to this (as will most of the University Administrative heads themselves--as they do not (at all) possess the same knowledge that the Professors have, although they often fancy themselves better fitted to arbitrate matters of curriculum).

Note: Athena, I will get back to you in full--it will likely take the form of multiple installments over a period of time (due to personal obligations)
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Old January 14th, 2018, 06:15 AM   #36
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Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Are Public Schools designed to be propaganda systems to indoctrinate the young or are the overwhelming majority of the Adult population (i.e. parents, teachers, principles, school administration, politicians, US Secretary of Education, ect.) really so ignorant/stupid that they do not recognize the blatant miseducation/abuse that is occurring year after year, generation after generation, ect.? Or, do you challenge the premise of the question entirely? Thoughts?

As a reference, see short video where Linguist/Commentator Noam Chomsky discusses the Public Education System: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo
Public education in the US had no vocational training until 1917. The sole purpose of mandated free public education was to prepare the young for citizenship, and this came with education for independent thinking. That is not what I heard Chomsky say. Yes, that education was indoctrination and it Americanized the immigrants with a set of American values, and I constantly argue that education is essential to our liberty and democracy. I don't think I am in agreement with Chomsky's argument.

The purpose and method of education was changed in 1958 and the federal government has exercised more and more control of education since then, making Chomsky's argument a good one from that period forward, but because it misrepresents what teachers were doing before 1958, his argument is problematic in my point of view.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 06:40 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
@Athena

In order for one to understand that the (sane) Professors are perpetually "biting their tongues" in various areas, then this necessitates knowledge of the "in-the-closet" game that is going on. That is, only people who have "forbidden" knowledge will notice this going on, most of the students who haven't been exposed to such information/world-view shifts will be oblivious to this (as will most of the University Administrative heads themselves--as they do not (at all) possess the same knowledge that the Professors have, although they often fancy themselves better fitted to arbitrate matters of curriculum).

Note: Athena, I will get back to you in full--it will likely take the form of multiple installments over a period of time (due to personal obligations)
Can you present an outline of thoughts to follow? How do you know of the order of college administration and the forces controlling their decisions? I ask because I am seriously concerned about controlling forces.

One professor actually reported me for asking inappropriate questions, and at that point, my effort to get him judged as inadequate for the job, resulted in the dean defending the college's choice in a professor. No one wanted to consider they had made a poor choice, but in their defense, they explained to me how limited their options were. There were only 5 possible applicants and the one they chose was the only one who had published. That did not mean he was adequate for the job! He was a good game player but poorly informed. That was a demonstration of a bureaucracy defending itself. However, the college did end the program. I assume they decided, at that time, it was too hard to get good professors in the gerontology department.

Colleges tend to be very conservative and controlling and hierarchical. What they spend on football teams is shocking! I guess football is a money maker for colleges?
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Old January 14th, 2018, 06:46 AM   #38
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Indoctrinated? brainwash, propagandize, proselytize, reeducate, persuade, convince, condition, program, mold, discipline;

Liberty?? independence, freedom, autonomy, sovereignty, self-government, self-rule, self-determination;

Would this be for 10 yr olds??
Yes indoctrinated as the Christians indoctrinated each other. I wish you think about your objection to indoctrination and your belief that Christianity is a good thing and your belief about our sinfulness. That indoctrination is not a bad thing and it does mean a protected liberty.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 07:11 AM   #39
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Can you present an outline of thoughts to follow? How do you know of the order of college administration and the forces controlling their decisions? I ask because I am seriously concerned about controlling forces.
@Athena

Yes, I would be happy to explore what this looks like in outline although I will allow some recent cases to do much of the "heavy-lifting" for me.

Are you familiar with any of people listed below (as this is of direct relevance)?:

(A) Jordan Peterson
(B ) Lindsey Sheppard
(C) Bret Weinstein
(D) Jonathon Haidt
(E) Nicholas Christakis
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Old January 14th, 2018, 07:19 AM   #40
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Yes, the public schools are indoctrination centers. They do not focus at all on abstract thinking, problem solving, life skills or in reality anything truly useful beyond probably 5th grade. It is basic memorize, regurgitate and forget. Rinse and repeat. Their goal is to create C students. Worker bees. Unquestioning wage slaves. College is even worse these days as these children who many only real guidance in life tell them that it is a necessity for their future survival then jump into tens sometimes hundrids of dollars into debt for absolutely useless degrees.
The good of Christianity is indoctrination and teaching good values. The good of public education was the same indoctrination only without referring to the bible. That education did protect our liberty because only highly moral people can have liberty. That morality is a matter of logic and we prepared everyone for good moral judgment.

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Now the schools do not even try to hide their obvious political agenda as leftism is directly part of the curriculum and much of the staff is openly radically political.
Assume no one knows what it means to be leftist and define what you are objecting to without using that word.

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Common core has made this even worse. Our schools last year decided to adopt common core mathematics, well it is a completely different approach to mathematics not only did the kids have no idea what this gobbldy gook was but neither did the teachers. They spent the majority of a semester just learning what was going to be on the tests.
Neither are the parents prepared to help their children learn the new math. What can we do about this?
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