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Old January 14th, 2018, 07:29 AM   #41
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@Athena

Yes, I would be happy to explore what this looks like in outline although I will allow some recent cases to do much of the "heavy-lifting" for me.

Are you familiar with any of people listed below (as this is of direct relevance)?:

(A) Jordan Peterson
(B ) Lindsey Sheppard
(C) Bret Weinstein
(D) Jonathon Haidt
(E) Nicholas Christakis
No I am not, but I can google them and will.

(A) Jordan Peterson- this youtube is available for 4 days. I very much enjoyed this...
https://tvo.org/video/archive/maps-o...hs-that-matter

( The Lindsey Sheppard matter does not interest me and therefore, doesn't hold my attention enough for me to figure out why interest anyone.

Bret Weinstein- this is an interesting distinction I judge as worthy of discussion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/o...n-its-own.html
QUOTE]The first instance, he argued, “is a forceful call to consciousness.” The second “is a show of force, and an act of oppression in and of itself.”[/QUOTE]

(D) Jonathon Haidt- Oh a Ted Talk, I love those..

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_h...the_moral_mind

Now I have to run. Company is coming.
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Last edited by Athena; January 14th, 2018 at 08:33 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:03 AM   #42
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No I am not, but I can google them and will.
I can provide relevant links & short explanations for you later tonight to shortcut the process for you (if you'd prefer?)
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:38 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
@Athena

Yes, I would be happy to explore what this looks like in outline although I will allow some recent cases to do much of the "heavy-lifting" for me.

Are you familiar with any of people listed below (as this is of direct relevance)?:

(A) Jordan Peterson
(B ) Lindsey Sheppard
(C) Bret Weinstein
(D) Jonathon Haidt
(E) Nicholas Christakis
They are Fascists that oppose free thinking and speech.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:53 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
@Athena

Yes, I would be happy to explore what this looks like in outline although I will allow some recent cases to do much of the "heavy-lifting" for me.

Are you familiar with any of people listed below (as this is of direct relevance)?:

(A) Jordan Peterson
(B ) Lindsey Sheppard
(C) Bret Weinstein
(D) Jonathon Haidt
(E) Nicholas Christakis
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
They are Fascists that oppose free thinking and speech.
Jordan Peterson is hardly a fascist. Jordan Peterson is a free speech advocate.
I am not as familiar with the others listed.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:55 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
They are Fascists that oppose free thinking and speech.
@TNVolunteer73

Are you claiming(?):

(A) The people I listed are "Fascists that oppose free thinking and speech"

(B ) The people that have attempted and continue to try to shut them down are "Fascists that oppose free thinking and speech"

(C) A combination of (A) & (B )

(D) None of the Above
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:56 AM   #46
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Jordan Peterson is hardly a fascist. Jordan Peterson is a free speech advocate.
I am not as familiar with the others listed.
I will post links later tonight when I have time
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Old January 14th, 2018, 11:33 AM   #47
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Yes indoctrinated as the Christians indoctrinated each other. I wish you think about your objection to indoctrination and your belief that Christianity is a good thing and your belief about our sinfulness. That indoctrination is not a bad thing and it does mean a protected liberty.


My objection to indoctrination?? It depends on what indoctrination you are speaking of, who's doing the indoctrinating, & who's on the receiving end.
The word itself implies "force", unwanted influence, brainwashing but I suppose some types of indoctrination could be good, if it refers to teaching or educating--molding or training. Parents indoctrinate their children every day.

Yes, I believe that Christianity is a good thing, at least it's been good for me. My church is my extended family--my workplace--my fellowship and a place for life-long learning. I like having a set of standards to live by and having friends/family with those same set of standards.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 08:58 PM   #48
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The Lindsey Sheppard matter does not interest me and therefore, doesn't hold my attention enough for me to figure out why interest anyone.
@Athena

I'm very curious as to way you take this position? Lindsey Sheppard is a Graduate School student TA (Teaching Assistant) that presented material from a Psychologist at an elite University (U of Toronto) about a subject matter of direct relevance to what she was employed to instruct to her students (the Undergraduates)--and was nearly expelled due to this. Now, the reason she got into so much trouble was that the topic was considered "restricted"/"off-limits" much like the "Restricted Section" in the School library of the Harry Potter Universe where all of the "Dark Magic" is held.

Now, unless you fundamentally agree with the Harry Potter concept of "The Restricted Section" for Dark Magic and the idea in Star Wars that Jedi's are forbidden from seeking knowledge of the Dark Side of the Force, then this would appear to be highly problematic indeed--as is the nature of trespassing onto taboo territory.

What are your thoughts on this front?
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Old January 17th, 2018, 08:38 AM   #49
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My objection to indoctrination?? It depends on what indoctrination you are speaking of, who's doing the indoctrinating, & who's on the receiving end.
The word itself implies "force", unwanted influence, brainwashing but I suppose some types of indoctrination could be good, if it refers to teaching or educating--molding or training. Parents indoctrinate their children every day.

Yes, I believe that Christianity is a good thing, at least it's been good for me. My church is my extended family--my workplace--my fellowship and a place for life-long learning. I like having a set of standards to live by and having friends/family with those same set of standards.
Everything you said about being a church member is good. With great pain I realized the change in education meant I was standing alone with my values, because they were no longer supported by education, and church membership just isn't an option for me. My children were part of the cohort that made news as a national youth crisis. I envy the Christians their support groups. This is also why I write so passionately about the change in education and the harm I believe it has done.

We have a serious problem with our language that is very slanted and limited.

Quote:
in·doc·tri·na·tion
inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən/
noun
the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
"I would never subject children to religious indoctrination"
archaic
teaching; instruction.
"methods that were approved for indoctrination in divinity"
Translations, word origin, and more definitions
That is not at all how I would define indoctrination because we taught a set of American values, we also had education for critical thinking and independent thinking. I believe education for citizenship is indoctrination, but it means learning a set of concepts and the reasoning for them. Nonchristians are not indoctrinated with the concepts and reasoning of Christians, so when they read the bible they do not interpret it the same way, and they don't see truth but nonsense and some really awful stuff too. Like what is good about a jealous, revengeful, punishing and fearsome god? That is not the god Christians today worship, but in the past, they did fear that god. How we understand the bible is all about indoctrination or lack of indoctrination.

Likewise, our understanding of citizenship is about indoctrination. We had education for good moral judgment based on reason. There is no longer an understanding of that. We had a very highly moral nation with a good understanding of virtues and what this has to do with our liberty and this is no longer true, but Christians are cheering about how the bible was right about the last days. I am so sorry, really I am, but the Christian belief that humans are born in sin, and need to be saved not by education but by a supernatural being, and their belief in our last days, along with no longer transmitting the culture we had is the worst thing that could have happened. We are being sucked back into the dark ages by the change in public education and reliance on Christianity to teach morality, and Christians are celebrating how wonderful it is that bible speaks of the last days. This is destroying our country and could destroy the world. What is happening today is the end of the enlightenment that made us great.

I think we might agree our government is the beast as was the government of Rome, and we would not agree on with this, I see Christianity as manifesting the antiChrist. It is as we believe it, and manifests it. Compared to the enlightenment, Christianity with is negative ideas of humanity and the future takes us out of the light. In India it is understood when we speak of one thing, we also speak of its opposite. When my children came of age, when education for good moral judgment was left to the church, Satanism was very popular. AND NOW CHRISTIANS ARE THRILLED TO BE IN THE LAST DAYS.

Last edited by Athena; January 17th, 2018 at 08:58 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2018, 09:03 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
@Athena

I'm very curious as to way you take this position? Lindsey Sheppard is a Graduate School student TA (Teaching Assistant) that presented material from a Psychologist at an elite University (U of Toronto) about a subject matter of direct relevance to what she was employed to instruct to her students (the Undergraduates)--and was nearly expelled due to this. Now, the reason she got into so much trouble was that the topic was considered "restricted"/"off-limits" much like the "Restricted Section" in the School library of the Harry Potter Universe where all of the "Dark Magic" is held.

Now, unless you fundamentally agree with the Harry Potter concept of "The Restricted Section" for Dark Magic and the idea in Star Wars that Jedi's are forbidden from seeking knowledge of the Dark Side of the Force, then this would appear to be highly problematic indeed--as is the nature of trespassing onto taboo territory.

What are your thoughts on this front?
We all have limited time and energy. I wish to focus my time and energy on school indoctrination and the change in public education. Threads are more comprehensive and can actually make a difference when they remain on topic.

Freedom of speech is an important topic and we have a thread for that. This thread is about school indoctrination.

Last edited by Athena; January 17th, 2018 at 09:07 AM.
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