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Old December 30th, 2017, 08:28 AM   #1
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Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Are Public Schools designed to be propaganda systems to indoctrinate the young or are the overwhelming majority of the Adult population (i.e. parents, teachers, principles, school administration, politicians, US Secretary of Education, ect.) really so ignorant/stupid that they do not recognize the blatant miseducation/abuse that is occurring year after year, generation after generation, ect.? Or, do you challenge the premise of the question entirely? Thoughts?

As a reference, see short video where Linguist/Commentator Noam Chomsky discusses the Public Education System: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo
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Old December 30th, 2017, 08:41 AM   #2
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Of course any education is indoctrination, you have people you are training to fill the roles in the society that will need filling, and obedience is a very important trait to instill in the vast majority of students.
You can have some who not obedient, they will mostly be criminals.
At the same time, you need a way for some otherwise obedient people, to become questioning in their profession, in order to promote progress.

It's a mix, and the education system does what it does, it could use some changes, and there is change taking place.

It's always in flux.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 05:51 PM   #3
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Of course any education is indoctrination, you have people you are training to fill the roles in the society that will need filling, and obedience is a very important trait to instill in the vast majority of students.
You can have some who not obedient, they will mostly be criminals.
At the same time, you need a way for some otherwise obedient people, to become questioning in their profession, in order to promote progress.

It's a mix, and the education system does what it does, it could use some changes, and there is change taking place.

It's always in flux.
The point of indoctrination is that one point of view/ideology, attitudes, cognitive strategies, ect. is pressed upon the students/children in an such a way that they may not even be aware of alternatives and are expect to consider alternatives outside of views pressed upon them. That is, there is an obscurantism at work. Now, if the young/pupils were taught scientific mindedness as well as the tools of Philosophy, and were encouraged to challenge authority rather than accept it quasi-unquestionably, then under a "tighter" definition of indoctrination, this would not qualify (however, under a more expansive definition, it still would be considered indoctrination).
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Old December 30th, 2017, 07:18 PM   #4
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The point of indoctrination is that one point of view/ideology, attitudes, cognitive strategies, ect. is pressed upon the students/children in an such a way that they may not even be aware of alternatives and are expect to consider alternatives outside of views pressed upon them. That is, there is an obscurantism at work. Now, if the young/pupils were taught scientific mindedness as well as the tools of Philosophy, and were encouraged to challenge authority rather than accept it quasi-unquestionably, then under a "tighter" definition of indoctrination, this would not qualify (however, under a more expansive definition, it still would be considered indoctrination).
Right, schools indoctrinate, every morning in my public school, we had someone read the Lords Prayer (not the real one, the Protestant one) and then recite a the 23rd Psalm, then we would pledge allegiance to the flag, then we would sing "My Country Tis of thee" to the tune of God Save the King, by High School, instead of prayer we had a moment of silence.

I mean there's only so many ways to do school, and do it for a budget.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 10:55 PM   #5
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Right, schools indoctrinate, every morning in my public school, we had someone read the Lords Prayer (not the real one, the Protestant one) and then recite a the 23rd Psalm, then we would pledge allegiance to the flag, then we would sing "My Country Tis of thee" to the tune of God Save the King, by High School, instead of prayer we had a moment of silence.

I mean there's only so many ways to do school, and do it for a budget.
Why do you think these type of rituals are necessary or even useful though (Note: I'm basing my question around my reading of your OP)?
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Old December 31st, 2017, 06:13 AM   #6
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First, let me say that Sabcat is going to LOVE this guy! AND also, Noam Chomsky is a product of the very system which he disdains--public H.S., U of Pennsylvania, and Harvard.
Second, the UTube clip says it was published in 2012, but Chomsky was born in 1928 so obviously the video is somewhat misleading. Chomsky is not a young man. His early education/experiences with education took place in the 1940s--hardly relevant today. So unless he taught in the public schools (which his bio does not include) or observed public schools daily/monthly through the 70s,80s, 90s, etc. he really has NO--absolutely NO--expertise in this area.
Third, Chomsky did not really answer the questions posed to him in the forum. He went off on a rant about indoctrination, obedience, rote memorization--in fact turning the population into babbling imbeciles.
Other interesting info: Chompsky was arrested on multiple occasions during the Vietnam War for civil disobedience, he was listed on Nixon's "enemy" list, has been accused of being a Holocaust denier, supported Bernie Sanders in 2016 and abhors Donald J. Trump.

Chompsky has received numerous academic achievements, awards and honors--including honorary degrees from the very education system he criticizes. So off-hand I would say he's quite the hypocrite...but I'd like to be wrong about that. Obviously he's a brilliant man who has very firm ideas about....well....everything from politics to linguistics to his Jewish roots to public education.

As you have probably surmised, I do not agree with Chomsky's eval of our public education system.

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Old December 31st, 2017, 06:32 AM   #7
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Why do you think these type of rituals are necessary or even useful though (Note: I'm basing my question around my reading of your OP)?
They're not necessary or useful. They're regressive to brain development and intellectual stimulus. Ritual is steeped in superstition and is based upon ignorance.

Schools are for reading, writing, math, history, science, and learning how to navigate society after school.

And nothing else, full stop.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 03:43 PM   #8
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They're not necessary or useful. They're regressive to brain development and intellectual stimulus. Ritual is steeped in superstition and is based upon ignorance.
I agree with all of this

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Schools are for reading, writing, math, history, science, and learning how to navigate society after school.

And nothing else, full stop.
Do you think these topics are adequately being taught at the moment? If so, then we have much more to discuss as this would strongly diverge from my view.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 04:03 PM   #9
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I agree with all of this



Do you think these topics are adequately being taught at the moment? If so, then we have much more to discuss as this would strongly diverge from my view.
It depends on the school district.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 04:16 PM   #10
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Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Are Public Schools designed to be propaganda systems to indoctrinate the young or are the overwhelming majority of the Adult population (i.e. parents, teachers, principles, school administration, politicians, US Secretary of Education, ect.) really so ignorant/stupid that they do not recognize the blatant miseducation/abuse that is occurring year after year, generation after generation, ect.? Or, do you challenge the premise of the question entirely? Thoughts?

As a reference, see short video where Linguist/Commentator Noam Chomsky discusses the Public Education System: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo


Yes, the public schools are indoctrination centers. They do not focus at all on abstract thinking, problem solving, life skills or in reality anything truly useful beyond probably 5th grade. It is basic memorize, regurgitate and forget. Rinse and repeat. Their goal is to create C students. Worker bees. Unquestioning wage slaves. College is even worse these days as these children who many only real guidance in life tell them that it is a necessity for their future survival then jump into tens sometimes hundrids of dollars into debt for absolutely useless degrees.

Now the schools do not even try to hide their obvious political agenda as leftism is directly part of the curriculum and much of the staff is openly radically political.

Common core has made this even worse. Our schools last year decided to adopt common core mathematics, well it is a completely different approach to mathematics not only did the kids have no idea what this gobbldy gook was but neither did the teachers. They spent the majority of a semester just learning what was going to be on the tests.

Epic fail.
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