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Old July 29th, 2008, 12:55 PM   #31
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I got to get back to reading all that is in this thread, but a question comes to mind...



How come The Disney Channel doesn't show the middle school crushes ever taking place between two girls or two boys?



I thought Disney was pretty liberal, and would be at the forefront of demonstrating acceptance to gay people. If you were a gay pre-teen, wouldn't you wonder why children's programming never shows your predisposition sexually as acceptable?



OD





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Old July 29th, 2008, 12:57 PM   #32
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I dn't watch Disney ... but I did see that Disney "High School Musical" and it has a (very) gay kid in it.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 01:05 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin
gay rights IS the elimination of lack of rights for gays





Well here is where you will interject again with the right to marry a member of the same sex. And here is where I would say that a right for some ought not redefine a social structure. And that is where you will indignantly claim that gay marriage does not redefine marriage, and this is where I will attest to The Establishment in principle. And well, been there, done that...



And you already graced this thread with a fully sarcastic insult claiming me to be Nazi for my beliefs. Aligning me to evil. Too bad you are not able to actually apply more dialectics in your debating technique and must resort to hyperbole and ad hominem. It is not very persuasive in the issues you wish to gain approval.



OD
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Old July 29th, 2008, 01:10 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin
I dn't watch Disney ... but I did see that Disney "High School Musical" and it has a (very) gay kid in it.


Which one is "(very) gay in it" ?



Are you possibly stereotyping?



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Old July 29th, 2008, 01:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear
And here is where I would say that a right for some ought not redefine a social structure. And that is where you will indignantly claim that gay marriage does not redefine marriage, and this is where I will attest to The Establishment in principle. And well, been there, done that...


And here's where someone has to remind you that the 'social structure' and 'the established principle' in marriage has already been redefined several times already, to be more inclusive in regards to who can marry who, and not stay married to who society 'dictates' they should be married to...



If it wasn't for marriage being redefined, YOU'D still be married to your first husband, and stuck in a loveless marriage in fact. Let alone, short of being widowed, allowed to entertain the thought of remarrying another that wasn't your original husband.



And let's not forget, that then your choices of marrying/remarrying another would have been limited to what race you and your intended were, as well as what religion/non-religion you both were.



Marriage isn't a stagnate exclusive club. It's always evolved along with the changes in society to reflect those changes in society. And in this instance, it's STILL evolving to be more INCLUSIVE towards our society as a whole.



The same old, same old may have been ok in the stoneage, but as our society grows, so does the appropriate and needed in society change to reflect that evolution as well.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 01:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer
And here's where someone has to remind you that the 'social structure' and 'the established principle' in marriage has already been redefined several times already, to be more inclusive in regards to who can marry who, and not stay married to who society 'dictates' they should be married to...



If it wasn't for marriage being redefined, YOU'D still be married to your first husband, and stuck in a loveless marriage in fact. Let alone, short of being widowed, allowed to entertain the thought of remarrying another that wasn't your original husband.



And let's not forget, that then your choices of marrying/remarrying another would have been limited to what race you and your intended were, as well as what religion/non-religion you both were.



Marriage isn't a stagnate exclusive club. It's always evolved along with the changes in society to reflect those changes in society. And in this instance, it's STILL evolving to be more INCLUSIVE towards our society as a whole.



The same old, same old may have been ok in the stoneage, but as our society grows, so does the appropriate and needed in society change to reflect that evolution as well.




Divorce does NOT redefine marriage,it dissolves it. And divorce is nearly as old as marriage as a fact of human history. Writs of divorce given in many societies. And inter-racial marriage and marriages that were between two people of different faiths as well. Many right in the ancestry of Jesus.



Marriage is not a club,agreed. But it is exclusive.



OD
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Old July 29th, 2008, 01:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear
Which one is "(very) gay in it" ?



Are you possibly stereotyping?





I don't think so

Quote:
Ryan Evans, the High School Musical character that everybody thinks is gay, has officially been outed.

No, not necessarily in High School Musical 3, the third entry of the popular Disney movie series currently being filmed for an October theatrical release. Itís in High School Musical on Tour!, a Disney-produced stage adaptation of the original movie currently touring the country.



Sure enough, Ryanís locker in the stage version has pictures of men inside, not women like the other guys. And when the playís leading hunk Troy Bolton (Zac Efron in the movies) brushes against Ryan at one point, the character literally swoons, leaving absolutely no doubt whom he finds attractive.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by OhDear

Marriage is not a club,agreed. But it is exclusive.


which is what makes it discriminatory - unDemocratic - and unAmerican.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 01:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by OhDear


And you already graced this thread with a fully sarcastic insult claiming me to be Nazi for my beliefs. Aligning me to evil. T issues you wish to gain approval.


sorry

I think that people who advocate the discrimination of gay people ARE evil.

And those who pretend to have an affection for Jesus and do it are even MORE evil.

You think I'm hateful and I think you're evil.

Who is worse?
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Old July 29th, 2008, 02:02 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear
Divorce does NOT redefine marriage,it dissolves it. And divorce is nearly as old as marriage as a fact of human history. Writs of divorce given in many societies. And inter-racial marriage and marriages that were between two people of different faiths as well. Many right in the ancestry of Jesus.



Marriage is not a club,agreed. But it is exclusive.



OD


When divorce was introduced and allowed, it DID change the meaning of marriage. Because before then, a marriage was a steadfast 'married till death do us part'.



And by allowing divorces to happen, that changed the whole scope of 'till marriage do us part' portion that so many put into the reasons of getting married.



Furthermore, in most 'ancient' instances...Only the MEN could petition for the divorce. Not the women. So again, another change to marriage in general today, cause the woman is an equal in the marriage, as such she can get the divorce despite the man's desire to remain 'married till death do us part'...



That made a HUGE impact on the meaning of marriage when by allowing it LEGALLY to be ended by either party, that the 'deffinition' of 'till death do us part' isn't as solidifying/all saying as it once was.



And inter-racial/inter-religious marraiges may have occured, but they weren't accepted by society period nor given legal recognition in most instances. In fact, those participating in such marriages were stigmatized by the societies they lived in because it 'wasn't the norm'.



Basically the towns' 'little dirty secret' that was taboo to discuss. And those in those types of marriages could expect to be obstisized by both races and religions they hailed from.



In fact, the ONLY time it was ok and accepted by society in general, in regards to the inter-religious marriages, was if one of the people (usually the female spouse) converted. But they still could expect to be obstricized by the people and religion then, that was dumped for the other religious belief.



Now that they're accepted and allowed in our modern day cultures, despite a large portion of society still disliking it, that still CHANGES what the 'norm' was prior to it being made LEGALLY recognized by our society.
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